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Old 09-18-2009, 04:17 AM   #1
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Default A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

That you don't have to actually like, but hear me out. Based on what Blackduck said in the Possible Player Promotion thread, and watching A-League games, and playing B-League games, I suggest that we try hosting a few games without leagues to see how it goes. We should wait until B21 and whatever other game is going on in A (none, I presume) before we do, and Sillyman's game can be the first of our test games. The A-League would appreciate it because their games are small and short, and the B-League would as well because our games are long, big, and filled with lurkers. It would also let the more inexperienced players get more experience, because they would be playing with all the more experienced players. It would solve a lot of our lurking problems, not completely, but enough, and it would make our games much more fun - a bigger, but not really slow, game is better than a small fast game or a big, slow game. And if it works better than the whole League thing, we can abolish the leagues. Why were they even here in the first place?


That's it, you can yell at me for why it's a really horrid idea now, but I don't see why it would be, frankly.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: A suggestion

Seems like a sound idea to me.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: A suggestion

I've been thinking that for awhile. I've always thought that the leagues were pointless because there's a lot of people that I'd like to be able to play with that are in the B-league.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

It's evidently been quite a long time since the two mafia leagues were created and players were split into either A or B. I'll admit that I cannot confirm the exact reason for the creation of the leagues, but without Hammered here to help, I'll just do my best to explain the decision.

Mafia started out as very small games run by Mr.Onion, where the few, more active members of the time, participated. These games had 5-10 people, and only ran for a couple of (mafia) days.

It was a fun game, and, as Hamumu gained more active members, more people wanted to play. This was fine, as it enables larger games that ran for longer. However, the older players slowly learnt the 'ins and outs' of the game, and so it became much more tactical, with some players being able to distinguish townie from mafia quite easily, especially with newer, less experienced players constantly joining games.

As mafia became an official forum game, as you may call it, a hoting system was devised, so that the older players got a chance to host a game, and the whole thing became more organised. However, with it being a widely regarded game on Hamumu, a lot more people wanted to join in, including the less active members. With the experienced players, less experienced players, and lurkers all playing together, the games ran much less smoothly. The less experienced players would either be easily found out and killed, or they would be ignored due to their 'lack of impact' towards the game.

Okay, so we A-leaguers think of ourselves as 'mafia elitists', and a lot of us (not naming any names) got fed up with the inexperience of many of the players, so the leagues were created as a way of getting back the original environment of the first mafia games, or something similar, where everyone was pretty much even.
Of course, this isn't fair on the B leaguers, you may say, as they get all the inexperienced players and the lurkers. I'm not going to disagree, but what I may point out is that you're in pretty much the same boat we were when we first played mafia. None of us really knew how to play, but games still ran smoothly.
The A league probably is to blame if you're not enjoying mafia. Of course, things haven't gone smoothly for us either, as we have yet been split up according to skill, so, for example, Hammered, Coolguy or I often got killed Night 1 by the mafia. If we weren't killed Night 1, the townies assumed we were mafia, so lynched us Day 1. Therefore, some players, including myself, just can't participate in mafia any more, simply because we've developed a specific style of play, which other players may easily recognise.


Personally, I don't have much of an opinion on whether the leagues should be merged again, as, although I don't want to play with lurkers and such (who does?), I can't really play in the A league anyway, and I understand why B leaguers are getting frustrated.

Anyway, I hope this little speech of mine has given you all a bit more insight. If not, then I apologise for my ramblings.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

The leauge was orginally split because games were taking too long due to lurkers/inactiveness and the like, I believe.

I think the leauges should be kept- Its just not fun to those who get NK'd Night 1 every time. Maybe lessening the requirements on Split-Leauge games would help.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

Well, if people would lurk less or make rules preventing lurking, it would be more fun for us at least, and it looks like the A-league could use more players.

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Old 09-18-2009, 01:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

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Well, if people would lurk less or make rules preventing lurking, it would be more fun for us at least, and it looks like the A-league could use more players.
Even without lurking, it still isn't fun to those of us who get NK'd Night 1/0 every game. The problem of lurking has been discussed, and I am implementing a system for my Mafia game that hopefully will help prevent some of that. I think that simply making cross-leauge games easier to host will help solve the problem.

Also, the reason why B games take so long is partly because B-leauge games usually have 16ish players in them, while A-leauge games usually have 8-ish.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

I never really did like the whole leagues thing. Back when Hammered created the Leagues, the A-League had 13 or so active people. Now, it only has around 8, and only around 6 of them usually sign up for the games. I think it would be best to merge them.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

http://www.hamumu.com/forum/showpost...4&postcount=20

I think that sums up my feelings pretty well.

In my opinion, merging the leauges will simply result in too many players trying to sign up for games. Too many people will be waiting, and many players won't be able to play as often as they do now.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

Personally I think A players should be allowed to join B games but not Vice Versa. This way B players gain experience, but aren't completely ignored.
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:48 PM   #11
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicchaos1993 View Post
In my opinion, merging the leauges will simply result in too many players trying to sign up for games. Too many people will be waiting, and many players won't be able to play as often as they do now.
Well, more than one game could be going on at a time.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

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Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
Personally I think A players should be allowed to join B games but not Vice Versa. This way B players gain experience, but aren't completely ignored.
I think this is a great idea. This way, the B players would have the chance to play with more experienced players, and the A players would still keep having to play with people of their own skill level. It may even help the lurker issue a bit, if there's experience people to replace them.
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

I say they should be merged together, as others have said.
For the NK'd Night 0/1, why dont all mafia games start on day 1? That way, Mafia members have to think who should die.
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

But then the TOWN has to do the random kill, since there's no info on Day 1.

As for merging the leagues... At this point, A-League is becoming too small to really sustain itself for more than one or two more games. The amount of players are shrinking with each game- How many active players are there now in A? 6 plus host? I think merging may become a necessity soon, the way things are going.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

You know, the mafia could just be original and kill somebody completely at random night 1.
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

Maybe the Night 1 victim of the previous game is invulnerable to being killed the first night in the next game?
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

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Maybe the Night 1 victim of the previous game is invulnerable to being killed the first night in the next game?
That just turns into a horrilbe walk in Metagame park.
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

I created a poll for this, linky.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

i think we should keep the leagues, but have more cross-league games, so A-leaguers who dont want to play with us inexperienced players can do so, and those who are looking for a mafia game with more people can do so as well. and of course B-leaguers could get some experience!
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: A Suggestion to Merge the Leagues

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Originally Posted by moltanem2000 View Post
i think we should keep the leagues, but have more cross-league games, so A-leaguers who dont want to play with us inexperienced players can do so, and those who are looking for a mafia game with more people can do so as well. and of course B-leaguers could get some experience!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsSJ View Post
I created a poll for this, linky.
(non-quoties)
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