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Old 06-16-2014, 06:55 PM   #1
Boneheads
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Default Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Give me your opinion/thoughts on the subject.
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Last edited by Boneheads; 06-20-2014 at 09:31 AM. Reason: whatevz jamul
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Well, it certainly causes a lot of pain to indies and other independent people. Generally, piracy does hurt the self-publishing, the self-business, and other groups along those lines.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

The economy at large? I'd say no. Individuals like Jamul, absolutely.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Id argue that yes, it does.

On the large scale, piracy harming the economy is minor. Music producers, big software developers and TV producers are all filthy rich enough to get by, but there is no doubt that if everyone payed for what they used, they would earn more.

On a smaller scale, ie, indie TV, software and music, it can be hugely detrimental. (ie Hamumu) Im curious as to how much of an imapct Jamul thinks piracy has on his business. Certainly, I purchase all of my software and a large portion of my music. I dont watch much TV.

On a semi-related topic, what does everyone think of rights to data? ie, paying for an album but not owning a physical CD? I personally hate the idea because the concept of owning something but having no proof of this seems silly. Also, i like reading album notes and being able to play a CD :3
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
On a semi-related topic, what does everyone think of rights to data? ie, paying for an album but not owning a physical CD? I personally hate the idea because the concept of owning something but having no proof of this seems silly. Also, i like reading album notes and being able to play a CD :3
Rights to data is logical, otherwise I only own two Hamumu games, the two I have CD's of. Data is a thing, and that's what you buy. Buying a CD with data on it is just buying the data with a free semireflective disk included, really.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

The thing is piracy can't exactly be correlated to lost sales because one doesn't know whether a pirate would have bought a product if piracy wasn't possible. As well, digital products effectively have an infinite stock, so even if numerous copies get "stolen" there's no loss in how many copies can be sold. The only thing lost is speculative: a possible sale. The value of that is based on how the seller perceives it.

The time and money invested in preventing piracy however, can be an issue. Companies can spend large amounts of money on DRM systems which get cracked in a number of days. Furthermore, an anti-piracy measure may give issues to paying customers, either by error (e.g. false-positives) or inconvenient design (limited installations, tedious registration systems, etc), and this can deter both paying and potential customers from the providers. These losses would be calculable.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Yes, I have been noticing that the piracy on our games is increasing.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

For smaller businesses absolutely for obvious reasons. For products with a wide audience and the economy as a whole: no. It in fact probably helps the economy. The reason being is that the money that would have been spent on the product in question will be spent anyways, contributing to GDP. In the meantime it can actually help sell copies of the product itself because it acts as advertising and (in cases of video and music), is of a lower quality which may prompt buying the real thing in an case.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:14 PM   #9
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Default Politics, religion, The Great Pumpkin, and software piracy

There are two main arguments I often see for why people pirate, and they both have differing effects on sales. These arguments may be described in very general terms, but that's more of a reflection of how we can't predict for certain how weighted the pirates are versus the buyers. The arguments are:

*The Cheap Argument - A person might choose not to budget for electronic media because they'd rather allocate their money to other things, either out of poverty, or being unappreciative of industry they pirate from. This always means that the company is not receiving money from the person that pirates at that time, although there is a chance that the pirate may buy the product later.

*The Convenience Argument - The legitimate version of the product may be considered inferior in terms of usability because or rarity, DRM, or method of distribution. Whether this results in lost sales depends on whether a person will want to purchase the product at the same time they pirate, purchase the product later, or not purchase at all.

The reason I think Jamul seems relatively more opposed to piracy is that the convenience argument I mentioned above doesn't even apply to Hamumu games; they are still being sold without DRM, and can be conveniently downloaded from hamumu.com in the event of a file storage emergency. Piracy against this company is always a bad sign, signaling people who can't obtain its software legitimately, or choose not to.

Even in the instance of people who can't afford the games, they are still promoting ALL kinds of piracy when they utilize particular methods of piracy that will bring awareness to, or facilitate in the download of pirated software. Even if they secretly pirate friend-to-friend, there is still the possibility that choose not to work for money and thus were technically capable of putting in the effort of buying the game, but chose not to anyway. I think it's lazy to say that you deserve to have something because it's particularly hard for you to obtain it by normal means, but now we've reached the inevitable moral arguments on piracy, and these are some heated and personal politics that I don't even want to get in to.
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Old 07-12-2014, 03:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Going slightly off topic.

Certainly, it seems strange for a person to go through all that trouble to pirate (In this case, software).

I think the pirated software, doesn't matter whether at a lower price, or free, contains malware which steals your account info, and worse, your bank account info. That may be one common reason as to why some of these pirates (maybe) buy the software, and then decide to pirate it.

In terms of games, such as the problem which Mike Hommel and I am sure, many other indies are having, is that most of the audience who download these "free" games, may be children.

I am not trying to say that I am some how different, I once had the urge to download games for free, even though I knew, you had to pay for them, but what stopped me from pressing download, was the fact that I knew malware was out there in many forms, and I could have just fallen into the trap, and basically, I thought to myself, how would I feel if I got my games pirated too?

Why children? I think it's because they don't have a grasp of what is really out there on the internet, but I realised that it's not just them, there are also some adults who don't have a grasp or firm ground either.

The question is, how many people who go to pirate software sites, know that most of what they might download, is simply malware?

One of my hunches is, if people are more aware and hold their security and privacy more closely, there would be fewer downloads, and maybe, fewer dollars lost out of the pockets of indies and other people.
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Old 07-12-2014, 03:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessManiac View Post
I think the pirated software, doesn't matter whether at a lower price, or free, contains malware which steals your account info, and worse, your bank account info. That may be one common reason as to why some of these pirates (maybe) buy the software, and then decide to pirate it.
It has to do, at least partially, to freedom of information. It's hard to explain why I believe this, namely because it involves a lot of websites that are absolutely not Hamumu-friendly, but it costs the pirates little to nothing to put the files up online, and if they do, others will, so they get free stuff just for sharing their stuff. It's a trade that costs little to nothing.

For a comparison, imagine if the monster cards here worked exactly the same except that it cost nothing to do it. Everyone would just share their cards with whoever wanted them.
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Old 07-12-2014, 05:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Except that most pirated material is completely clean. People generally dont pirate for malware, but rather as a form of trade or sharing.
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Old 07-12-2014, 01:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

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Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
People generally dont pirate for malware, but rather as a form of trade or sharing.
This. I have many friends that download pirated stuff, and they have never had problems with malware on the stuff they download. They do say, though, that there's certain things to check about the file before you download it, because if you just download anything without thinking, chances are there's malware on it.
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Old 07-12-2014, 05:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

Well it puzzles me how pirated software is like a trade/share system for some, can you explain it more in dept.
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Old 07-12-2014, 06:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: Piracy: Does it really hurt the economy?

One person buys SWC, one person buys Kid Mystic, they each give each other the software that they bought. 2 for the price of one. With tangible goods, this isnt possible as 2 people cant own one thing, but with software, music, games ect, 2 people can own one thing.
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