Hamumu Software Hamumu Software Hamumu Software
Name
Password Register
Latest Journal update: Nov 2, 2017
Old 03-11-2009, 10:05 AM   #21
Mr.Onion
Evil, random-voting vegetable
 
Mr.Onion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Down at the shore where there's no-one vacationing.
Posts: 4,862
Default Re: God.

Quote:
"Science" is the act of coming up with "logical explanations" that can be understood by the human mind, but for that very reason, are already false.
Science isn't automatically false; It is simply the closet humans can currently get with the provided (i.e. gathered) data. The current model of science is accurate enough for most purposes, but doesn't claim to be the "truth".

Quote:
If you know/can prove that a belief is true, it's not a belief anymore.
But surely you believe doing something twice will produce the same result as the first time?
__________________
Mr.Onion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 10:31 AM   #22
TyTBone
College Boi
 
TyTBone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 2,067
Default Re: God.

Lol! This reminds me of the Evo. vs. Crea. vs. Spam thread, from long ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderpumpkin
This debate seems to currently be taking placing in the comments on one of my YouTube videos for whatever reason, and has been taking place so many times in the past that I'm getting sick and tired of it and it never actually results in anything anyway.
I can totally relate. Usually whenever I view something on something religious on YouTube [usually a DC Talk music video], I avoid looking at the comments because I'm almost sure I'll see people arguing over the matter.
__________________
Siggy!
(I just read the sig, what a throwback)

Last edited by TyTBone; 03-11-2009 at 10:34 AM.
TyTBone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 10:33 AM   #23
SpiderPumpkin
Banned
 
SpiderPumpkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fat Furry Land
Posts: 1,876
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion View Post
Science isn't automatically false [...] but doesn't claim to be the "truth".
So what is it, then? :P
I find it interesting that you seem to accept science without demanding evidence that proves it to be "true" (which it can never be, since humans did not make the universe, so it just doesn't work in a way humans can understand). That's also what people do with religion. Science and religion are both placeholders to "explain" what we cannot comprehend, and truly cannot explain therefore. I'm not saying either of those are "bad" or whatever; they both serve a purpose by giving us the comfort of "knowing" how stuff works, and it's okay to believe in explanations like that since that makes life easier. But the only thing humans can truly know is that they know nothing, at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion
But surely you believe doing something twice will produce the same result as the first time?
No. Doing something twice can never result in the exact same thing to happen both times. I believe that there are far too many factors involved in everything aside from what a person does, so the same thing can never happen again. I have no proof, but I believe it to be that way.
SpiderPumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 10:45 AM   #24
Mr.Onion
Evil, random-voting vegetable
 
Mr.Onion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Down at the shore where there's no-one vacationing.
Posts: 4,862
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Quote:
Science isn't automatically false. It is simply the closet humans can currently get with the provided (i.e. gathered) data.[...] but doesn't claim to be the "truth".
So what is it, then? :P
It is the thing you conveniently cut out of my post!
Quote:
I find it interesting that you seem to accept science without demanding evidence that proves it to be "true" (which it can never be, since humans did not make the universe, so it just doesn't work in a way humans can understand*). That's also what people do with religion. Science and religion are both placeholders to "explain" what we cannot comprehend, and truly cannot explain therefore. I'm not saying either of those are "bad" or whatever; they both serve a purpose by giving us the comfort of "knowing" how stuff works, and it's okay to believe in explanations like that since that makes life easier. But the only thing humans can truly know is that they know nothing, at all.
How do you know the universe is unknowable? Just because it may be unknowable to you doesn't mean it is entirely unknowable. Also, I accept science because it has evidence behind it, unlike religion, and because it is pratical and useful. Application of religion has not invented anything, nor improved the quality of life for the world.

* You are right, but I don't think you meant that.
__________________

Last edited by Mr.Onion; 03-11-2009 at 10:46 AM.
Mr.Onion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 10:56 AM   #25
SpiderPumpkin
Banned
 
SpiderPumpkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fat Furry Land
Posts: 1,876
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion View Post
It is the thing you conveniently cut out of my post! :p
Which would be true or false?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion
Also, I accept science because it has evidence behind it, unlike religion,
This part is funny. All "evidence" that science has is entirely made up by humans based on observations of things they believe to understand. That's exactly as much evidence as religion has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion
and because it is pratical and useful.
Never doubted that, didn't claim anything different either. (On a totally unrelated note, I initally read that as "piratical" :D)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion
Application of religion has not invented anything, nor improved the quality of life for the world.
Religion is the basis of ethics. Humans aren't robots that act only based on logic and have no feelings or ethics or insticts, even if your perfect world would apparently be populated by such, as I understand your posts.

EDIT: And besides all that, it's undeniably fun to believe in adventurous concepts :D

EDIT2: On a different note, this is probably my last post in this topic since arguing about this stuff is a complete waste of time, and I initially just popped in to promote paganism :D

Last edited by SpiderPumpkin; 03-11-2009 at 11:02 AM.
SpiderPumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:04 AM   #26
Mr.Onion
Evil, random-voting vegetable
 
Mr.Onion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Down at the shore where there's no-one vacationing.
Posts: 4,862
Default Re: God.

Quote:
All "evidence" that science has is entirely made up by humans based on observations of things they believe to understand. That's exactly as much evidence as religion has.
The bold bit. Religion's "theories" are not always in line with what is observed in reality. Science's, on the most part, are. When they are not, science rewrites the theories so that they conform better to reality. Also, "It accelerates this much when you push it with this much force" isn't exactly open to interpretation, or "made up".

Quote:
(On a totally unrelated note, I initally read that as "piratical" )
That's because it originally said piratical. My spellchecker is dumb.

Quote:
Religion is the basis of ethics. Humans aren't robots that act only based on logic and have no feelings or ethics or insticts, even if your perfect world would apparently be populated by such, as I understand your posts.
Ethics does not require religions, however. It does not take the thread of a man in the sky to convince people not to kill each other. It's as simple as "Grok not hit Thog if Thog not hit Grok."
__________________
Mr.Onion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:16 AM   #27
SpiderPumpkin
Banned
 
SpiderPumpkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fat Furry Land
Posts: 1,876
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion View Post
"It accelerates this much when you push it with this much force" isn't exactly open to interpretation, or "made up".
Explain "it". Explain "accelerates". Explain "this". Explain "much", etc. All the words in that sentence, and their definitions, are entirely made up. Words and numbers don't exist, acceleration doesn't exist, force doesn't exist. It's all made up by humans.
Quote:
It's as simple as "Grok not hit Thog if Thog not hit Grok."
Ah, that explains why we have world peace today! Thank you for explaining. "Grok not hit Thog if Thog kill Grok either."

Okay, this was truly my last post here, I swear to Ra. :P
SpiderPumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:30 AM   #28
Megadog
The Demagogue
 
Megadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At home duhhh!
Posts: 2,416
Default Re: God.

I can see where this will end so I will attempt to post only once.They have proven certain events in history. Jesus was real, there is a Jerusalem and a Bethlehem. But they have not proven GODS existence. And they never will. Because of science. there are only three questions for me, what set off the big bang, what are we supposed to do in our lives, and what happens when we die. These three questions are probably the questions that sparked most religions. If I had to follow a religion, I would probably follow Buddhism.
__________________
Back to the roots: Lets put the Hamumu back into Hamumu Forums!
Megadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:41 AM   #29
Mr.Onion
Evil, random-voting vegetable
 
Mr.Onion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Down at the shore where there's no-one vacationing.
Posts: 4,862
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Explain "it". Explain "accelerates". Explain "this". Explain "much", etc. All the words in that sentence, and their definitions, are entirely made up. Words and numbers don't exist, acceleration doesn't exist, force doesn't exist. It's all made up by humans.
The idea applies regardless of how it is expressed. You're essentially arguing that, because we apply labels to things, they don't actually exist. The units are defined in a way that is the same for everyone, regardless of language or background, and numbers do exist, assuming certain properties about them. (which are assumed because that's the way the universe is observed to work)
__________________
Mr.Onion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:59 AM   #30
cyberclone42
I'm not here.
 
cyberclone42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: no
Posts: 1,685
Default Re: God.

I don't believe in god, it seems... Unexplainable.
__________________
cyberclone42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 02:33 PM   #31
NeedBrains
Zany Zombie
 
NeedBrains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 150
Default Re: God.

Man, there's too many flaws in any religon for me to endorce it head on. Sorry if I offend everybody (which I might) but here's a quick list off the top of my head. Sorry for any spelling errors.

Judism, Jahovias Witness: No Christmas. I'm too bull-headed to look past that.

Christianity: A senior citizen got 2 of EVERY animal and put them on one boat. Snakes used to talk. The world was made in 7 days. Yeah right.

Athesim (is that a religon?): Everything is made by nothing. When we all die, we just die. True? Maybe. Depressing? Overly.

Satanism: No. Just, no.

Scientology: Stop blaming the aliens, Tom Cruise!

Cathlic: What's wrong with birth control? Why do I have to pray for the Pope if he's the holiest man alive?

Budism: Buddah was a person. Not a God. His is more a success story than a Godly one. It's almost like praying to the guy who lost weight eating Subway.

Before everyone flames me, this is just my opinon. What do I really know? They phrase it best in the movie 'Religilous' - "Explaining a God to a person is like explaining a T.V. to an ant". I'm making these points as just that, points. I'm wrong too! I'm indecisive! No one is sure about anything. Which is why no one will know until it's too late.
__________________
Going There, Doing That, NeedBrains

Last edited by NeedBrains; 03-11-2009 at 02:36 PM.
NeedBrains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 02:50 PM   #32
Ubernoob
Dumb Person
 
Ubernoob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 759
Default Re: God.

Of course there is a God. This is as obvious to me as the fact that there is oxygen. However human consciousness is such that people can only prove God to themselves. And belief or nonbelief in God isn't really the point; love is the point. Can you love God and other souls? Can you love yourself? These are much more important questions: not how was the universe created, but are you grateful that it was and that you are here?
__________________
Ubernoob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:00 PM   #33
WackieWatty
The Hard Hat, MWAHAHA!
Moderator
 
WackieWatty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Doing a groovy dance at the Construction Site, Dumbopolis.
Posts: 1,572
Send a message via MSN to WackieWatty
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Onion View Post
I'm confused about this. What do you mean mistaking adaptation for mutations? If things mutate totally randomly, then they adapt, and thus they evolve.
As far as I'm concerned, evolution is random, whereas adaptation is not. Adaptation is about becoming better suited to your surroundings. My interpretations of evolution, however, are that a single thing 'randomly' mutates, and if it is beneficial, then the animal survives and manages to breed.
__________________
Remember, if you ever need any help, or have any queries or concerns, feel free to ask! You can PM or e-mail me.
WackieWatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:13 PM   #34
Manga Chic
Here's a penny, buy a clue.
 
Manga Chic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LaLa land, being kicked in the skull by a unicorn.
Posts: 258
Default Re: God.

I am officially regretting ever clicking on this.
__________________
I AM THE EVIL HAT-WEARING BATMAN!
[of course you don't get it.]
Manga Chic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:14 PM   #35
varkarrus
Banned
 
varkarrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fending Off Boredom
Posts: 1,940
Default Re: God.

If God exists, the only real way it can work with today's science is if He was a law of physics: the law of consciousness. Somehow, he would be able to control himself (seeing as he's consciousness), affecting the universe. There's my far-fetched attempt at creating a religion.
varkarrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:15 PM   #36
CheeseLord
No One Is Perfect
 
CheeseLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The dead center of the universe.
Posts: 1,590
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WackieWatty View Post
As far as I'm concerned, evolution is random, whereas adaptation is not. Adaptation is about becoming better suited to your surroundings. My interpretations of evolution, however, are that a single thing 'randomly' mutates, and if it is beneficial, then the animal survives and manages to breed.
They've shown that genes mutate randomly. However, this is not in the course of one lifetime. The genes differ slightly between parents and children. It's fairly intuitive that those with genes best suited to the environment survive, and are thus able to reproduce more. This leads to successful genes being passed to children.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts.
__________________
There is often a method to the madness, but always a madness to the method.

Without loss of generality, assume I am a squirrel.

I'm not an actor, I just play one on TV.
CheeseLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:18 PM   #37
Kerma
Conspiracy Wizard
 
Kerma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CANADA
Posts: 728
Default Re: God.

The bible is adapted from a Mesopotamian Text, so maybe our god is something completely differ from theirs. Also, some bible stories were based off of happenings in Mesopotamia.
__________________
Kerma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:43 PM   #38
fourwind
Lord of Blobs
 
fourwind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Sunny meadows asylum.
Posts: 319
Default Re: God.

My made up religion is called Imaginism.
Technically it denies the existence of everything pretty much.
It substitutes reality for another world created from your mind.
So far i am the only person who can actually keep my imagination going for long enough to create a substitute for reality. It denies all existence of a god.
As soon as you are able to substitute reality, all you can say to people is:
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW? As you ride on a dinosaur through the mushroom village. Seriously. That is how messed up it is.
Unfortunately i have not completely reached the alternate reality yet. Only slightly. I mean, right here, right now, i can make a puppy appear. Or light the computer on fire.

But no, according to me god does not exist. But Jesus does. Because of the fact that you can't deny the fact that thousands of people have believed to see him. But according to how i think, he only exists in my world. But we have become so reliant on stuff like technology that we cant explode our imagination into reality. Except me. Ive tried converting people to Imaginism, but they don't understand the significance.

Really its not a religion as it is an alternate reality.
So i don't know why i shared it.
So yeah. I'm gonna play with that puppy.
__________________
Fourwind

fourwind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 03:51 PM   #39
Ninja of Frozen Milk
... is proud to be a furry.
 
Ninja of Frozen Milk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,093
Send a message via MSN to Ninja of Frozen Milk
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerma View Post
I'm afraid that this topic will quickly turn into a flamewar and be closed, but before that happens, I believe in evolution, nothing else.
Indeed
__________________
I am not here anymore alas. Anyone is welcome to IM me or email me attheninjaoffrozenmilk@hotmail.com, my Skype is Yukigo_Kurosaki
Ninja of Frozen Milk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 08:00 PM   #40
Megadog
The Demagogue
 
Megadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At home duhhh!
Posts: 2,416
Default Re: God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubernoob View Post
Of course there is a God. This is as obvious to me as the fact that there is oxygen. However human consciousness is such that people can only prove God to themselves. And belief or nonbelief in God isn't really the point; love is the point. Can you love God and other souls? Can you love yourself? These are much more important questions: not how was the universe created, but are you grateful that it was and that you are here?
We evolved to breath oxygen, not the oxygen coming so we can breath! We had a very deep conversation on fate today, which lead to things like the colour of nothing and infinity plus one. This somehow lead to how to put a virus on a mac computer and all when downhill from there. Also, if god does exist, and is everything and everywhere (Quoted from the bible) then would that not make him Satan as well? Satan is something after all.

(P.S. I broke my vow! )
__________________
Back to the roots: Lets put the Hamumu back into Hamumu Forums!
Megadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Site Map
Copyright 2017, Hamumu Games Inc.