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Old 03-19-2009, 12:45 PM   #1
Jamul
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Default ROMs and Piracy

Downloading the ROM for a game you don't own is illegal. Don't do it. You'll be banned from Hamumu. I don't like thieves (or criminals, really) at all, and people who steal games obviously are the ones that bother me the most. You are literally and directly my enemy. You are acting against my interests and trying to get my house repossessed. I'll never appreciate or tolerate that.

Games are not magically different from other objects in the universe: if you don't own something, you can't use it. It's just common sense, people. And without it, there would be no games at all.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mother 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamul View Post
Downloading the ROM for a game you don't own is illegal.
Some sites I've been to state that downloading a ROM is also illegal if you do own the game, others state that it's only legal to keep the ROM as long as you own a working copy of the game (and you must delete it if the cartridge goes boom or whatever). This is mostly out of curiosity, but I'd like to know the most, uh, official stance on this.

On-topic, never played the game, or Mother 2, in fact. May have to get it some time though, since everyone else seems to have played it :P

EDIT: Last part is not on-topic anymore since this was moved. This was in the Mother 3 thread originally.

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Old 03-19-2009, 01:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mother 3

It is totally illegal for them to offer the ROM regardless of whether you own. It's definitely legal for you to have the ROM if you own the game (in fact, you do! It's on the cartridge!). But since it's illegal for them to give it to you, I suppose you could say it's illegal for you to get it from them. Somebody's certainly committing a crime at that point. I don't think it's the downloader, but I can't be sure.

The reason that's illegal (in my thought) is just because they don't have the official capacity to determine that you own the game. It wouldn't even matter if you physically showed them the game in your hand. They have no way to prove that you are the owner of it, so they can't be authorized to give you a copy. You can legally make your own ROMs out of games you own, if you have the equipment to do so. It's just another form of backing up.

The whole '24 hours to try it out' thing (you didn't mention it, but ROM sites do often) or whatever is an absolute crock of zoids that they made up to justify stealing.

A ROM is just a backup copy of the game in another format. Nothing wrong with having backups. Much much wrong with people selling or giving those backups to you. I would definitely argue that you do not have to delete a ROM you have if the cartridge dies. That just doesn't make sense, and defeats the whole point of backing up the file in the first place. Of course if you give away or sell the cartridge, the ROM must be deleted, because you no longer own the game.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mother 3

Well, it would be the same as with music. You can rip the music if you own the CD, or even tape or record, and you could get away with downloading it online if that was the case, but whoever uploaded it is committing a crime. And if you don't own it, than downloading it is a crime. And unfortunately, even if you did go out and buy it afterwards, you'd still be able to be charged with copyright infringement. But most people who do pirate things don't ever get charged, so you're doing something quite honorable by punishing people for piracy, Jamul.

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Old 03-19-2009, 01:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mother 3

Thanks... I think most people see it exactly the opposite, which is a devastatingly serious problem with our culture.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mother 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamul View Post
Thanks... I think most people see it exactly the opposite, which is a devastatingly serious problem with our culture.
I saw a site once that was dedicated to stopping piracy... I don't remember the link though. Two things that I really remembered though:
(This may help explain why people see piracy as "alright", see User type #2)
The four types of Internet users:
1) The Honest User
They legally buy all software, and follow the licence and the law.
2) The Not-as-Honest User:
He will redownload free trials so he can avoid paying, and makes up excuses like "I don't have the money" or "It doesn't deserve the price"... But he would NEVER download a crack, because "that would be stealing, and stealing is WRONG."
3) The Unhonest User:
He will even resort to downloading a crack, and will avoid paying for software in any way he can.
4) The Pirate:
"YARR!" Whatever he wants, he steals. If a crack doesn't exist, he makes one.

The other thing I remembered was something he did on how to help reduce piracy (or, at the least, poke some fun at them). It worked like this: He gave a link to a Youtube video that was basically somebody singing "Yo, ho, Yo, ho, a pirate's life for me". Then, he would say that "You can find great cracks of *Insert software here* and *Insert software here* Here. The last "here" linked to the Youtube video.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mother 3

*sigh* I suppose, I'd fall into the Not as honest user. I still have WinRAR on my computer about a year after the trial ended, but thats their fault for not having it disable after the 60 days. that usually doesn't work because it leaves a trace on your computer that permenantly disables it. Of course you could put it on another computer, but I only have one computer. I would never download a completly illegal program though. Never have, never ever, ever will.

Please don't ban me.
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

I had to pay for it (it being mother 3), don't ban me.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

I'm curious: how do you feel about linking to stuff [like music] on Tubecodes? [I know you've never really had a problem with that - as long as they're appropriate - but I'm curious if that's changed.] Is that like promoting piracy, in theory, because people uploaded those songs without necessarily contacting the bands?
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

Those are totally illegal videos, one and all (I doubt you would ever find one that was made with permission of the copyright owner... except Jonathan Coulton ones!). Please don't link to them. It's not so much promoting piracy as it is committing piracy - you are sharing an illegal copy of a work.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamul View Post
Those are totally illegal videos, one and all (I doubt you would ever find one that was made with permission of the copyright owner... except Jonathan Coulton ones!)
... And Weird Al, I think he's linked to a few. I actually think there's quite a few out there uploaded by the original artist... in any case, yeah, generally not legal.
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

I actually bought Mother 3 over Ebay too. I personally don't really fancy ROMs that much, just like I don't like Virtual Console on the Wii either. I really prefer getting the game it was intended to be played, even if it does cost 10x more.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

Quote:
1) The Honest User
They legally buy all software, and follow the licence and the law.
2) The Not-as-Honest User:
He will redownload free trials so he can avoid paying, and makes up excuses like "I don't have the money" or "It doesn't deserve the price"... But he would NEVER download a crack, because "that would be stealing, and stealing is WRONG."
3) The Unhonest User:
The interesting thing to note is that many type 1.5 users (i.e. follow the law because they can't be bothered to make sure they won't get caught) are moving to type 2 or 3 because of rediculous copyright law/DRM.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

I think that if companies really want to start keeping piracy at bay, they need to invest in more Steam-like products. Thoughts?
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:52 AM   #15
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

Just one more time in clear print:

DON'T ADMIT TO PIRACY HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE.

DUH!!
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:55 AM   #16
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

TyTBone, that's what I'm doing. I'm done making piratable games, and just doing ones connected to the server. Every time some company comes out with results of their studying, they find that 90%+ of all people playing their games are pirating them. Spiderweb Software just announced something like 4,000 sales of one of their games, and awareness of over 10,000 pirates of the same. World Of Goo reported it in percentages, and it was over 90%.

Now obviously, those pirates wouldn't all buy (I suspect a very small percentage would), but just knowing that they can't play without paying is enough for me!
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

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Originally Posted by TyTBone View Post
I think companies that if companies really want to start keeping piracy at bay, they need to invest in more Steam-like products. Thoughts?
Steam has been cracked, and many gamers will be outraged if the Steam servers ever go down. (And they have on the rare occasions where they have.)
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

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Steam has been cracked, and many gamers will be outraged if the Steam servers ever go down. (And they have on the rare occasions where they have.)
Ah, okay. Well, it's better than nothing. Otherwise they might as well have just thrown out HL2 disks like confetti onto the public. [Or something like that.]

Quote:
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TyTBone, that's what I'm doing. I'm done making piratable games, and just doing ones connected to the server.
Flash is going to allow you to do this, I'm assuming? [I recall you said something like this on BtD, but I'd have to re-watch to be sure.]
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

Quote:
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TyTBone, that's what I'm doing. I'm done making piratable games, and just doing ones connected to the server.
One thing I noticed was that you don't use any form of DRM and yet I don't remember seeing any illegal copies of your games anywhere. (and yet almost any product that does use DRM inevitably gets pirated anyway... actually it's quite frequent that those who don't use any DRM at all don't get pirated until people start calling it abandonware [coincidentally I believe that people should release stuff into the public domain or under a free license at or before that point, but in any case it's not a good idea typically]) Of course, I may just not be looking that hard because I'm not a pirate.
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: ROMs and Piracy

Quote:
yet I don't remember seeing any illegal copies of your games anywhere.
I suspect that's a question of popularity, rather than of meanness. If you're not very popular, (compared to, say, EA) the major pirates won't distrubute your stuff.
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