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Old 07-30-2009, 12:36 PM   #1
CheeseLord
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Default Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

From this point forward, you are all cheeses. Why? Because I said so. Now then, two of your number have been ruining the fridge for the rest of you. You have decided among yourselves that each night, a leader will be chosen. This leader, or lord of cheeses, as it were, will decide who should be eaten next.

Essentially, this is a kingmaker game. No power roles except mafia and kingmaker.

Players:
blackmyth
BryanSNK
CoolGuy
drgamer
Hammered
PurpleKoopa
Sillyman
Wesley

Roles and accompanying flavor text (courtesy of cheese.com) have been sent. It is now Night 1. Send PMs.
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Last edited by CheeseLord; 07-30-2009 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Past tense
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

You awaken to discover that blackmyth has died under mysterious circumstances. He was cream cheese, a vanilla townie. You also discover that Coolguy has been named king.

Players still alive:
BryanSNK
CoolGuy (King)
drgamer
Hammered
PurpleKoopa
Sillyman
Wesley

Others:
blackmyth - Died Night 1

It is one vote to lynch. Get to it.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

It appears that the mafia dislikes lurkers, so perhaps our illustrious king should look at the people who typically rail against the lurkers (even though the king himself is, in fact, one of the chief complainants in this regard).
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Hello fellow cheeses! And all hail our new cheese overlord Coolguy! Remember the town as a group can't vote people out - only the king makes the executing order. So please don't lurk and pop up only for bandwagons - you can't!
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

I am here and see no point to my involvement in discussion... what exactly is the point of being awake in a Kingmaker game again?
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-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GCS/M d- s: a--- C++ UL P L+++(+) E- W++ N o+ K? w O? M V? PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5? X? R>+ tv+ b+>++ DI+@ D(---) G e->++++ !h r? y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Blaaaah.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Wow, I'm not dead. Maybe the mafia didn't notice CL saying there were no power roles? (No doctors = BAD) Anyways, thanks for making me The Big Cheese, mysterious Kingmaker!

Alright.... We have 7 people alive. 2 mafia and 5 townies. That means if we fail today, then tommorow, there will be 3 townies and 2 mafia... and that's lynch-or-lose already! We only have one free lynch this entire game so I'm going to be extremely careful with my vote (and I suggest future kings or queens to do the same!) If we mess up 2 lynches, we're already done for.

There's a couple things I'd like to know from CL before I start theorizing stuff:
1) Can the Kingmaker claim his (or her) role?
2) Can we gasp to give final words if we die? Because in a game with no doctors, this is really important to know whether we should be saying everything on our minds (to avoid taking it to the grave) every day or not.

EDIT: And please actually contribute... Because I have to pick one of the 2 mafia among the 6 people who aren't me. If 5 of those 6 people are asleep, I can't do that, and there goes our only free mistake!
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Last edited by Coolguy; 08-01-2009 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Well, here's the thing: All I can do is point out contradictions. I have very, very little subjectivity. So I can't help much without any power roles whatsoever.

Edit: However, allow me to confirm that this game is heavily imbalanced. Random chance, applied once, can put us at lynch-or-lose?

Hang on, actually, let me point out probabilities: 2(mafia)/8(alive townies)*1(mafia not picked last night)/5(alive townies)=5% chance of losing on day 2 due to sheer probability if the mafia simply act like productive townies until picked as King, then go MUAHAHA DIE.

Edit: Doh, math error: 1/6, sorry. Which makes it 4.16%.
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-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/M d- s: a--- C++ UL P L+++(+) E- W++ N o+ K? w O? M V? PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5? X? R>+ tv+ b+>++ DI+@ D(---) G e->++++ !h r? y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Blaaaah.

Last edited by Sillyman; 08-01-2009 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Is the king picked at random every night? I forgot how that works.

I didn't think that there were any special roles...so how can you claim? You are either a vanilla townie or you are mafia and then we are told who the king is.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Ignore this post. It shouldn't be here. Can it be deleted?
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Last edited by Mr.Onion; 08-01-2009 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

So far, I think all we can conclude is that Coolguy is not the Kingmaker, assuming that our all-seeing Lord of Cheese did the smart thing and prohibited the Kingmaker from making himself King.
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Quote:
Is the king picked at random every night? I forgot how that works.

I didn't think that there were any special roles...so how can you claim? You are either a vanilla townie or you are mafia and then we are told who the king is.
The kingmaker chooses a king each night. He can't choose himself. If the kingmaker dies, a townie is randomly chosen to be the next kingmaker. There are only townies, mafia, and one kingmaker in Kingmaker games.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Oh ok, I remember how these games work again now.

So pretty much all we can go by right now is that Coolguy is not the kingmaker...and that I am a piece of cheese. A yummy piece of cheese.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
1) Can the Kingmaker claim his (or her) role?
No. You can't mass-claim as townies to find out either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy
2) Can we gasp to give final words if we die? Because in a game with no doctors, this is really important to know whether we should be saying everything on our minds (to avoid taking it to the grave) every day or not.
Yes.
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Old 08-01-2009, 03:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Darn, killed on Night 1. And I was sure this game was going to be gouda...

*Eaten.*
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:12 AM   #15
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Obviously the mafia is Mr. Onion. After all, who wants ONION flavored cheese? Now, a little touch of garlic would be alright... But then again, that's my personal preference.

Anyways, all silliness set aside... Which one of you did it?
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Old 08-02-2009, 02:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

We still need to hear from Wesley. Once everyone's here, we can get some more strategy done.
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Old 08-02-2009, 02:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Eh, I'm not good at math. Then again, I'm cheese, so I have an excuse. So... What do y'all think of Cheese Whiz? (No, I don't actually have anything to say, at the moment...)
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:52 AM   #18
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

Well... Nobody has anything to say at all about the issue, which means we're a bit stuck. I guess I'm going to do all the analyzing... and after I get shot down tonight somebody else is going to have to step up and do this. Although we don't have any of the 'standard' bits of info yet (past voting actions, info from powers, etc), we still have one importance piece of data- The mafia killed Blackmyth, despite the fact that there are no doctors in this game (meaning they could have easily gunned down Hammered or me). Why? There's several possible reasons.

The big one is the one Hammered pointed out (well, something Hammered pointed out to that's similar). In this scenario, somebody among the mafia gets killed a lot when they're townie, so surviving very long would reveal them really fast, so they go after less-often-killed people to disguise this fact... This is a tactic I've used when playing as mafia in previous games. The trouble is that the only ones among us who actually get killed a lot are Hammered and I, and lynching either incorrectly would be disastrous, both for the aid lost and because our free chance would be gone already, wasted on causing such a destructive lynch.

The other likely possibility is that the mafia did not know there was no doctors, but CL made that pretty clear by saying there were no power roles among the town. Although I originally dismissed this as unlikely (this is A League after all), people have been getting apathetic about the game lately.

Another possibility is that the mafia are clever enough to fake the main reason by killing off the people who post less... but that's never happened before, so I really doubt that's occuring.

A final option is that the killers just plain thought Blackmyth was a great choice for that night's kill (despite me and Hammered as alternatives), either by thinking of him as a great player or as just a kill that would avoid revealing information. I think this is kind of unlikely, but I really don't know how some of you play as mafia, so this could be possible.

An even more final option is that it's all Mr Onion's devious plots, since he's always evil. Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Anyways, even the recent not-too-helpful posts of many of you have still revealed some info. Stuff I noticed:

-Lots and lots of people are just making jokes or discussing trivial stuff, probably to either avoid being seen as a lurker without actually contributing or to avoid giving information. I don't really blame people for that in this game because all we have to work on is that one death... The only people who actually contributed are Hammered giving some advice and pointing out that I can't be the Kingmaker, BryanSNK questioning the kingmaker-claiming (although he apparently misunderstood the rules), Sillyman giving some statistics about the imbalance against us, and PK helping people understand rules (although all but the first are still rather stretched, but at least they're trying!) The others may be hiding something or are just waiting for somebody else to do the work.

-Sillyman tries to justify lurking in this game in his first post since there's no voting... but unfortunately that's a decent question since all you can do is help me figure out who to lynch. The trouble is that by being quiet, all you are doing is making the King's job harder because he has no information on your roles at all. If only a few people are trying to do anything, then all the mafia has to do is start shooting from among those, and soon the only people left are the ones who don't do anything. This post doesn't really make Sillyman suspicious (really, not at all, since he's actually one of the few to post something that isn't completely trivial). It's just that I realized this would be a really lame list if it only had one observation.

Does anybody have anything to say? Advice to give, things they're suspicious of?
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Last edited by Coolguy; 08-03-2009 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

The only other thing I can think of that might be remotely useful in determining alignments would be to figure out who the kingmaker is, since the kingmaker is obviously a townie. Of course, the kingmaker would probably be a great target for the mafia and isn't likely to admit to holding the role, but still we might be able to deduce something from the fact that Coolguy was chosen as king.

I suppose it's possible that the kingmaker could have chosen blackmyth as the first choice and Coolguy as his backup, but the only motivation I could see for that choice would be that the kingmaker wanted the game to last as long as possible, so I discount this as unlikely.

I think it's safe if we assume that is not what happened, which means that it is likely that Coolguy was the first choice of the kingmaker.

With only one person to vote, it is important that the voting person be very good at mafia, especially at the beginning of the game when there is so little to go on. The kingmaker had nothing to go on at all as far as anyone's behavior, so mafia skill would be the only criteria. If you take Coolguy's logic into account, the best choices for king would be he and I. If the mafia is behaving rationally, they would choose either Coolguy or me for the first victim. Knowing this, the kingmaker would likely choose one of us as the first choice and the other as the backup choice. The question is who would choose Coolguy over me?

Blackmyth and Coolguy are not the kingmaker. That leaves:
  • BryanSNK
  • drgamer
  • Hammered
  • PurpleKoopa
  • Sillyman
  • Wesley
One of these people (me) could not have chosen me as the first choice, so, if it was one of the other five, they chose Coolguy over me. The kingmaker is either me or someone from among those five who thinks Coolguy is better at working out logic than me. Figure out who that might be, and you know who another townie might be. Then choose from among the people who would not have made that choice and you have slightly better odds.

If there is anything else to go on, I can't see it, so you are more or less on your own. I won't be able to post again until after work, so I wish you luck in your decision.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: Mafia game A28: Cheese Mafia

The mafia could have killed blackmyth because his name was first on the list.
Or maybe it was a complete random kill.
Either way...picking someone to kill on day 1 is going to be pretty random. The only good thing is that you have a 2/6 chance of picking someone that is mafia. Which isn't too bad. But the other case is that you are mafia and you will just end up killing a townie anyways.
So...it's your call oh mighty king!
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