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View Poll Results: Shall we merge the A and B leagues together again?
Yes! (I am in the A-league) 7 15.56%
No! (I am in the A-league) 3 6.67%
Yes! (I am in the B-league) 15 33.33%
No! (I am in the B-league) 4 8.89%
I play Mafia, but don't mind either way. 6 13.33%
I don't play Mafia, but I really like voting in polls. 10 22.22%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-19-2009, 11:46 AM   #1
AtkinsSJ
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Default Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

Just thought this would be useful as a poll.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I am guessing that the 4 A-Leaguers who voted yes are the newer members who wouldn't know what it was like to have all the smart players killed by the mafia and/or voted out by the town because they weren't killed by the mafia and then have to sit on the sidelines forever while the people who were not as good at the game struggled and/or lurked for weeks on end, leaving the smart players with no game to play in, and the game outcome to be pretty much random chance or worse.
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I say yes to the merge. I learned much more in the mixed game (Halloween Hill Mafia) than I did in any of the B league games.
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I agree with PCR, though I didn't play the game, I gained atleast a little bit of experience from readin A-league games
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

This should have been a public poll.
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I don’t play mafia anymore, but I agree with Hammered: the Leagues exist to make it possible for A-leaguers to actually play mafia for more than a day or so without being killed off for being good at the game. If the A-league is struggling to find players for its games, I suggest altering the rules, to allow A-league hosts to invite individual B-leaguers to sign up for their games, and/or to allow A League players to play in B League games.
I particularly recommend that you try that last route before abandoning the Leagues altogether.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

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Originally Posted by Ufo-Man View Post
This should have been a public poll.
It's private so that nobody can be pressured into what they vote, which a certain someone is trying to do anyway.
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Old 09-20-2009, 06:33 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammered View Post
I am guessing that the 4 A-Leaguers who voted yes are the newer members who wouldn't know what it was like to have all the smart players killed by the mafia and/or voted out by the town because they weren't killed by the mafia and then have to sit on the sidelines forever while the people who were not as good at the game struggled and/or lurked for weeks on end, leaving the smart players with no game to play in, and the game outcome to be pretty much random chance or worse.
Yes, Hammered, but now the A-League is getting so small that the A-Leaguers play about as much as they did in the B-League games.
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I don't think the league separation helps with lurking, and people being unable to play; it just concentrates it. Notice from the poll that nearly all B-leaguers want a merge, but A-leaguers mostly aren't that bothered. I reckon it's because people simply don't like being B-leaguers, there's a social stigma attached to it. Perhaps we need to rethink the system.

How about, for instance, players start in the B-league as now, but after a few games they 'graduate' to the A-league. A-league players can play in either league. The key difference is that B-league games would just be vanilla mafia: very simple, much easier to learn for new people. That way people don't start-off in complicated games, learn nothing, and keep on being players who lurk and can't play well. Probably, only A-leaguers would be able to host games, too, because they've played enough vanilla games to understand them - maybe some kind of requirement of hosting a vanilla game first? I dunno.

In the other thread there were suggestions against various rules that could be added-in to stop people killing the 'better' players, but I really don't think more rules would make any difference, and that would unbalance things.

But mainly, mafia needs to be a game again. If people are playing to further some other goal, rather than to just play, then things aren't going to work right. If the B-league is seen as for the people who are new and inexperienced, rather than being seen as for the people who lurk and are no good, then people should be quite happy being in either league.

---

Hopefully this could help with lurking too, though we probably need to think of something else for that.
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsSJ View Post
I don't think the league separation helps with lurking, and people being unable to play; it just concentrates it. Notice from the poll that nearly all B-leaguers want a merge, but A-leaguers mostly aren't that bothered. I reckon it's because people simply don't like being B-leaguers, there's a social stigma attached to it. Perhaps we need to rethink the system.

How about, for instance, players start in the B-league as now, but after a few games they 'graduate' to the A-league. A-league players can play in either league. The key difference is that B-league games would just be vanilla mafia: very simple, much easier to learn for new people. That way people don't start-off in complicated games, learn nothing, and keep on being players who lurk and can't play well. Probably, only A-leaguers would be able to host games, too, because they've played enough vanilla games to understand them - maybe some kind of requirement of hosting a vanilla game first? I dunno.

In the other thread there were suggestions against various rules that could be added-in to stop people killing the 'better' players, but I really don't think more rules would make any difference, and that would unbalance things.

But mainly, mafia needs to be a game again. If people are playing to further some other goal, rather than to just play, then things aren't going to work right. If the B-league is seen as for the people who are new and inexperienced, rather than being seen as for the people who lurk and are no good, then people should be quite happy being in either league.

---

Hopefully this could help with lurking too, though we probably need to think of something else for that.
That is an awesome idea. I am 100% in favour.
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

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Originally Posted by AtkinsSJ View Post
[awesome idea]
I support this product, service or revolution.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I agree with Atkins.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I say Atkins should just take over the whole mafia system since Hammered's leaving. Or at least she was last time I checked.
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Old 09-20-2009, 02:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaCannonsRule View Post
I say Atkins should just take over the whole mafia system since Hammered's leaving. Or at least she was last time I checked.
I'm not sure if we really need somebody to "take over" since we've already got tons of people that know the rules and know what to do and stuff. And if somebody does make a mistake, we've got those people that can correct it.
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I think League B should be renamed League 1.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

Well what i mean is that it should be public because lets say b leagure votes no and says hes an A leaguer. and i endorse AtkinsSJ's idea.
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

Atkins' idea is good, but what about the B Leaguers who want to host their games? I say we go with Atkins' idea, but only after all of the remaining B-League and A-League games have finished. No one should be able to sign up in this period, either.
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

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Atkins' idea is good, but what about the B Leaguers who want to host their games?
It's already a requirement that you post 3 "good" posts in order to sign up to host. It's just Atkins's idea means that that also gets you a promotion to the A league.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Onion View Post
It's already a requirement that you post 3 "good" posts in order to sign up to host. It's just Atkins's idea means that that also gets you a promotion to the A league.
I disagree with the whole idea of 'good posts' - if someone's playing to try and make 'good posts' so they can do something else, they're not really playing. I think since most of the B-leaguers have played mafia a lot already, they could probably be put in the new A-league pretty-much straight away. People who know how to play should be able to play the advanced games. Hopefully, people would just play a few games, get used to it, and join the advanced league without having to be judged by someone as to whether they are worthy.

Admittedly, I hadn't thought what would happen to existing games that people are waiting to host.

I do however, think we should probably rename the leagues somehow. Maybe, since the games will be vanilla in the B-league, it should be called the Vanilla League or something. I dunno.

Another point I was thinking is only letting people host an advanced game if they've successfully hosted a basic game. In turn, you can only host a game if you've reached the advanced league. Hopefully this makes sense: you reach the advanced league when you are familiar with the game, so you should know enough to be able to host a simple game. Once you've hosted a basic game, hosting an advanced one shouldn't be too much more difficult.

Ufo-man: ah, ok. But most people are going to vote honestly, so I don't think it causes much of a problem.

ElMikkino: the 'new' B-league would be for people who are new to mafia - if they're new, they're unlikely to be able to host it well. If people in the B-league do really want to host, at least they shouldn't be in the B-league for very long, only a couple of games.

---

Wow, I wasn't expecting such a positive response.
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: Mafia: Shall we merge the leagues?

I hereby approve of this plot to take over the world.

I mean plot to revolutionize the mafia games here.
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