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Old 08-08-2011, 12:56 PM   #1
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Default Massive Riots In London

Huge riots by youth are happening this very moment in areas of London such as Peckham and Hackney for no reason. People are smashing up completely innocent civilian's cars and setting them on fire, looting and then setting fire to shops, and even setting people's houses alight. The police aren't doing a great job of containing it. It's complete chaos.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

It's probably going to be related to some politics thing. People seem to think they need violence to be noticed.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

It's spread to Birmingham now and on a much larger scale Croydon, where a big furniture store is completely up in flames.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:20 PM   #4
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Thumbs down Re: Massive Riots In London

I've heard it's bad, but news stations here in America don't think it's very important. D:

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Old 08-08-2011, 04:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

This is obviously caused by provocateurs. The people are not stupid, and I am pretty sure they know that violence should be kept to a minimum, and if necessary, it should be contained against the police and the government. This smells inside job from kilometers, it is the exact same thing that has been going on here in Greece, at the protests at Syntagma square. Hundreds of thousands of people gathered to protest the austerity measures, and policemen dressed as citizens used molotovs to create an excuse for tear gas and flashbang grenades to be used. I seriously hope the citizens take advantage of this to turn it into a proper revolution and properly punish the ones responsible.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

Turns out it happened all because of a cop shooting a black man. And then the people doing the riots thought the cop was racist or something, so they started the riots.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Turns out it happened all because of a cop shooting a black man. And then the people doing the riots thought the cop was racist or something, so they started the riots.
I never heard of the guy's race before, and I am pretty sure that when a cop shoots a civilian, his race is the last thing that matters.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Originally Posted by Pumpkineater View Post
I am pretty sure that when a cop shoots a civilian, his race is the last thing that matters.
People these days are very concerned with racism and wrongful death. If a police officer shoots a civilian of a race frequently the target of racism, there will be trouble for him from outside the law. Whether or not he was right in his decision to pull the trigger, people who identify with the race of his "victim" will see ulterior motives.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

Man these riots are getting really out of hand. This seems like the biggest riot in europe! I heard the politics in europe are all crazy, it's nice to see the citizens stand up to it and london leading the way. All I have to say is I wonder what side the cops are on in this debate? I'm sure there's a reason the cops shot that person though as cops never abuse their power which is why there's such a high level of respect for them.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Originally Posted by HappyStikBeaver View Post
I've heard it's bad, but news stations here in America don't think it's very important. D:
News stations over here don't seem to think anything is important unless it's about celebrities or terrorists :/ For instance, Amy Winehouse's (very predictable, imo) death got more coverage than the almost 100 kids killed in Norway.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

yahoo news headlines has more coverage than that. and thats saying something.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

Here's an example of what's happening:
The People Doing the riots=Little Kid
The Cop(s)=Mom
When the mom isn't letting them do what the kid wants to do, the kid Throws his toy at the wall. NOT GONNA ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING!
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:27 PM   #13
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Yeah, and also, there's massive destruction and people are dying. :|

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Old 08-09-2011, 01:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Originally Posted by Boneheads1999 View Post
Turns out it happened all because of a cop shooting a black man. And then the people doing the riots thought the cop was racist or something, so they started the riots.
They shot him because he had a gun, which caused peaceful protests by his family which then somehow caused some random criminals turn up, see the oppertunity and cause chaos. Copycat groups spread throughout London. It's not a revolution of any kind PE, it's just criminals rampaging. EDIT: More is expected tonight
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Originally Posted by Pumpkineater View Post
This is obviously caused by provocateurs. The people are not stupid, and I am pretty sure they know that violence should be kept to a minimum, and if necessary, it should be contained against the police and the government. This smells inside job from kilometers, it is the exact same thing that has been going on here in Greece, at the protests at Syntagma square. Hundreds of thousands of people gathered to protest the austerity measures, and policemen dressed as citizens used molotovs to create an excuse for tear gas and flashbang grenades to be used. I seriously hope the citizens take advantage of this to turn it into a proper revolution and properly punish the ones responsible.
Did a cop person kill a member of your family of something? You expect a group of thugs to keep violence to a minimum? Grow up. Law is not inherently evil. Chaos is not inherently good. Stop reading every act by those with power as an attack against your personal freedom. It's honestly pathetic. You can critisize your government, access anything you want the internet, support any form of government. In some places, if they think you are doing any of thoe things, you disappear. So think about that before comparing people trying to control a riot to Draconian monsters.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Originally Posted by Felixrain View Post
They shot him because he had a gun, which caused peaceful protests by his family which then somehow caused some random criminals turn up, see the oppertunity and cause chaos. Copycat groups spread throughout London. It's not a revolution of any kind PE, it's just criminals rampaging. EDIT: More is expected tonight
I see I misjudged the type of the situation, though more points are to be raised by this.
First of all, the fact that he had a gun is a ridiculous excuse to shoot him. Bearing arms is a constitutional right in the United States, and it is a ridiculous thing that it is not in Europe. Criminals will find a way to get guns. The police already has guns. The only people without guns, are the ones who would use them properly, the civilians. Imagine you, your wife, and your kids are sleeping in your house, when suddenly you hear someone breaking in. He is probably armed and there is a huge chance of him killing you and your family.
Shouldn't it be your right to have a loaded gun hidden near your bed? Shouldn't it be your right to use deadly force to protect your family? Apparently not in Europe. This is yet another example of our "Don't defend yourself" culture. The same kind of stupidity can be seen at schools, where people will get suspended for participating in a fight no matter who started it. In the 7th grade, a bully was picking on a black kid half his size for being black, and nobody was doing anything. After warning him to quit it, he striked me, and a fight ensued, where I basically kicked his butt. But guess what, "I did not tell the teachers, and I instead used violence after he hit me", so I got suspended for two days, like the bully. What the heck? Self-defense should be encouraged, and possession of a gun should be mandatory to ensure the safety of the people.

Another thing that should be mentioned, is how unfair this excuse is. A cop shot a civilian for having a gun. Therefore, the cop obviously had a gun too. What exactly makes cops more trustworthy than civilians, and gives them the right to bear arms? They are not protecting our liberties, they are acting like a boogeyman. You can be thrown to jail for possession of cannabis (Which is less dangerous, AND less addictive than alcohol, and MUCH less addictive than Tobacco (Source)). You can be thrown to jail for using deadly force to protect your life. You can be thrown to jail for protesting via a DDOS attack. And the police are always the ones who put you there. You can be fined for speeding, you can get into trouble for drinking at 17 (Because you are oh so innocent and fragile until your 18th birthday when you suddenly and automatically mature and are ready for the world), you can even get in trouble or even shot sometimes for running from the police. The police is not there to protect the people, the police is there to serve capitalism and step on the people. In my opinion, if the guy had the time, he should have shot at the cop right after realizing that the cop was about to shoot at him.

About the criminals, they should be executed. I could go on and expand on why that is true, but I think we can already all agree that high treason should be punished by death, and that what is going on right now is, in fact, high treason.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:56 AM   #17
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

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Originally Posted by Pumpkineater View Post
The people are not stupid...
Yes, they are. They are incredibly stupid in large numbers. Once one member incites violence, it is very likely that the rest of the group will eventually follow him.

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Imagine you, your wife, and your kids are sleeping in your house, when suddenly you hear someone breaking in. He is probably armed and there is a huge chance of him killing you and your family.
He's armed with a knife. Not so much of an issue there, is there?

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What exactly makes cops more trustworthy than civilians, and gives them the right to bear arms?
In theory, because they are working for the government. The government must be able to maintain security.

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You can be thrown to jail for possession of cannabis (Which is less dangerous, AND less addictive than alcohol, and MUCH less addictive than Tobacco (Source)). You can be thrown to jail for using deadly force to protect your life. You can be thrown to jail for protesting via a DDOS attack. And the police are always the ones who put you there. You can be fined for speeding, you can get into trouble for drinking at 17...
All of these things are illegal, and I would much prefer the police enforcing the laws indiscriminately than giving them the ability to declare whether or not a law is justified. That is Parliament's job.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: Massive Riots In London

A few things I'd like to point out...

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Originally Posted by Pumpkineater View Post
I see I misjudged the type of the situation, though more points are to be raised by this.
First of all, the fact that he had a gun is a ridiculous excuse to shoot him. Bearing arms is a constitutional right in the United States, and it is a ridiculous thing that it is not in Europe.
The situation was probably not that the man was in possession of a gun, but that he aimed it at an officer. That's a very easy way to get yourself killed, it's happened before, and it's completely justified in the cop's case. Your point below even justifies the cop's case.
Quote:
Imagine you, your wife, and your kids are sleeping in your house, when suddenly you hear someone breaking in. He is probably armed and there is a huge chance of him killing you and your family.
Shouldn't it be your right to have a loaded gun hidden near your bed? Shouldn't it be your right to use deadly force to protect your family?
Quote:
This is yet another example of our "Don't defend yourself" culture. The same kind of stupidity can be seen at schools, where people will get suspended for participating in a fight no matter who started it. In the 7th grade, a bully was picking on a black kid half his size for being black, and nobody was doing anything. After warning him to quit it, he striked me, and a fight ensued, where I basically kicked his butt. But guess what, "I did not tell the teachers, and I instead used violence after he hit me", so I got suspended for two days, like the bully. What the heck? Self-defense should be encouraged, and possession of a gun should be mandatory to ensure the safety of the people.
I halfway agree with this. I do agree that schools need to start allowing kids to defend themselves. Fights normally occur only in a few areas, so just put surveillance cameras up to make sure you catch the antagonist. The world's a violent place, and we need to stop raising kids like it isn't. However, I think mandatory firearm protection is a bit overboard. There are some people in this world who are in absolutely no condition mentally to have a gun. Yeah, some of them are going to get them anyway, but what about the other half that normally wouldn't have guns and now are capable of going on a massive killing spree?

Quote:
Another thing that should be mentioned, is how unfair this excuse is. A cop shot a civilian for having a gun. Therefore, the cop obviously had a gun too. What exactly makes cops more trustworthy than civilians, and gives them the right to bear arms? They are not protecting our liberties, they are acting like a boogeyman.
See above. Also, their job is to enforce order. Obviously, when a riot starts and goes on like this, they're failing their job.

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You can be thrown to jail for possession of cannabis (Which is less dangerous, AND less addictive than alcohol, and MUCH less addictive than Tobacco (Source)).
I know several people that smoke pot, and I am so sick of hearing this excuse. Yes, it's less dangerous and addictive than tobacco, but it's still addictive and dangerous. It's the lesser of two evils, but it's still no good. It has the same lung issues as tobacco (except an even higher rate of lung cancer due to how the drug is smoked) along with heart and brain issues (although tobacco also causes heart issues that are worse than marijuana). And don't forget, both drugs share the fact that they have a pretty repulsive smell.

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You can be thrown to jail for using deadly force to protect your life. You can be thrown to jail for protesting via a DDOS attack.
Already discussed the first. As far as hacktivism goes, I think there needs to be new laws regarding it. Crashing a webpage for a day is pretty innocent, but some of what Lulzsec has done is and should be extremely illegal.

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And the police are always the ones who put you there.
That's their job. Would you rather have total anarchy?

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You can be fined for speeding, you can get into trouble for drinking at 17 (Because you are oh so innocent and fragile until your 18th birthday when you suddenly and automatically mature and are ready for the world), you can even get in trouble or even shot sometimes for running from the police.
Speeding's dangerous, and there's no way to measure each individual's maturity level and give them a drinking license so they just put a solid limit as 21 (18 in Greece apparently) so they didn't have to worry about it. And you should get in trouble for running from the police. If they're on you for something you're innocent of, you should be able to prove your innocence in court (of course, corrupt judges can kind of mess that up, and that isn't entirely unheard of)

Quote:
The police is not there to protect the people, the police is there to serve capitalism and step on the people. In my opinion, if the guy had the time, he should have shot at the cop right after realizing that the cop was about to shoot at him.
Yes, some individual cops are dumb, power-hungry lunatics that should be given a straightjacket instead of a badge, but most are good people. I've had a few encounters with cops (I've never been taken to the station or jailed, don't worry. My dad's been pulled over for speeding once and I've had two misunderstandings that resulted in me and my friends being stopped. The rest I just know casually) and only 1 cop out of the probably 20 I've talked to was a jerk. Cops are here to maintain order. Now, again, some cops are awful. There's been random beatings, kids tazed to death, and a few months ago four kids got arrested and taken to court for rapping their order at a McDonalds. But most of the time cops do their job and go home. You just don't here about it because it isn't newsworthy.

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About the criminals, they should be executed. I could go on and expand on why that is true, but I think we can already all agree that high treason should be punished by death, and that what is going on right now is, in fact, high treason.
So all of a sudden you've changed from telling the people to rebel to telling the government to execute the rioting citizens?
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:36 AM   #19
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The situation was probably not that the man was in possession of a gun, but that he aimed it at an officer. That's a very easy way to get yourself killed, it's happened before, and it's completely justified in the cop's case. Your point below even justifies the cop's case.
There has been a lot of confusion about this, and I am not sure about the truth here myself, but I have heard many accounts claiming that he did not actually aim at the officer, and that that was made up. If that is the case, the implications are frustrating, but I am not sure about the truth here so I can't really discuss it.
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I halfway agree with this. I do agree that schools need to start allowing kids to defend themselves. Fights normally occur only in a few areas, so just put surveillance cameras up to make sure you catch the antagonist. The world's a violent place, and we need to stop raising kids like it isn't. However, I think mandatory firearm protection is a bit overboard. There are some people in this world who are in absolutely no condition mentally to have a gun. Yeah, some of them are going to get them anyway, but what about the other half that normally wouldn't have guns and now are capable of going on a massive killing spree?
Mental exams should be required.
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I know several people that smoke pot, and I am so sick of hearing this excuse. Yes, it's less dangerous and addictive than tobacco, but it's still addictive and dangerous. It's the lesser of two evils, but it's still no good. It has the same lung issues as tobacco (except an even higher rate of lung cancer due to how the drug is smoked) along with heart and brain issues (although tobacco also causes heart issues that are worse than marijuana). And don't forget, both drugs share the fact that they have a pretty repulsive smell.
I am not debating whether or not drugs should be illegal (They should), I am debating whether pot should be illegal while tobacco and alcohol is legal. Truth is, pot makes people chill out, while alcohol aggravates them and in many cases turns them into jerks. I have seen many policemen on the internet, talking about how they never give someone trouble for being high, while they go completely by the book on alcohol-related breaches of the law. It is true that in a perfect world drugs would not exist, but it is simply preposterous to allow alcohol to be used instead of pot.
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Already discussed the first. As far as hacktivism goes, I think there needs to be new laws regarding it. Crashing a webpage for a day is pretty innocent, but some of what Lulzsec has done is and should be extremely illegal.
I highly disagree with you here. Lulzsec in a way serves the same purpose as Wikileaks and Anonymous, who serve a great purpose in fighting for our rights.
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That's their job. Would you rather have total anarchy?
When the police is enforcing ridiculous/unfair laws, the people have every right to violently resist. And yes, even though it is not my favorite system, I would rather have anarchy instead of capitalism/living in a police state.
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Speeding's dangerous, and there's no way to measure each individual's maturity level and give them a drinking license so they just put a solid limit as 21 (18 in Greece apparently) so they didn't have to worry about it. And you should get in trouble for running from the police. If they're on you for something you're innocent of, you should be able to prove your innocence in court (of course, corrupt judges can kind of mess that up, and that isn't entirely unheard of)
I won't answer to this, as you have correctly done so yourself.
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Yes, some individual cops are dumb, power-hungry lunatics that should be given a straightjacket instead of a badge, but most are good people. I've had a few encounters with cops (I've never been taken to the station or jailed, don't worry. My dad's been pulled over for speeding once and I've had two misunderstandings that resulted in me and my friends being stopped. The rest I just know casually) and only 1 cop out of the probably 20 I've talked to was a jerk. Cops are here to maintain order. Now, again, some cops are awful. There's been random beatings, kids tazed to death, and a few months ago four kids got arrested and taken to court for rapping their order at a McDonalds. But most of the time cops do their job and go home. You just don't here about it because it isn't newsworthy.
While nice cops exist and may even be a majority, they are still cops, and for that they have lost all my respect. It is the same thing that goes with teachers, they may have good intentions, but they serve a terrible system.
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So all of a sudden you've changed from telling the people to rebel to telling the government to execute the rioting citizens?
No, I always held this belief. Those people are not rebels, they are criminals. I would absolutely have no problem with them if they looted government buildings, banks, supermarkets, stores belonging to huge chains, police departments, or basically any other tool of the capitalists, but they are ruining small businesses, and have thus turned against the people. While they may be fighting against the police right now, both groups are our enemies and should be treated as such.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:57 AM   #20
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I highly disagree with you here. Lulzsec in a way serves the same purpose as Wikileaks and Anonymous, who serve a great purpose in fighting for our rights.
Ah hahahaha. Lulzsec's goals are in their name. Entertainment at the cost of others.

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government buildings
Hospitals are government buildings. Schools are government buildings. Courts are government buildings.

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While nice copsJews exist and may even be a majority, they are still copsJews, and for that they have lost all my respect.
This rewording should suggest something about your argument.
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