Hamumu Software Hamumu Software Hamumu Software
Name
Password Register
Latest Journal update: Nov 27, 2017

Go Back   Hamumu Forum > Games > Mafia & Forum Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2011, 12:56 PM   #1
hyperme
Not Evil, Just British
 
hyperme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Britain
Posts: 1,322
Default On Hosting Requirements

So, when some starts playing Mafia, they start as a Caterpiller, munching on the leaves of posting. As they continue to play, they develop the Cocoon of experince, becoming better at playing. And then, after hard work, they emerge from their Cocoon as a Butterfly, and flitter around and stuff. However, the Hamumu Mafia Butterfly has a fourth stage of life it can reach. Hosting. Sadly, the path to Hosting is filled with the Confusing Rules Flytrap and Arbitary Restrictions Pitcher Plant. And now I'll move out of strained metaphor land.

Hosting Mafia on Hamumu is hard. Why? Because:

  • The restrictions are buried somewhere in the signup thread.
  • The first post of the hosting signup thread is five years out of date.
  • At face value, the restrictions on hosting seem arbitary and stupid.
This needs fixing. The current rules are from an era when the forum was more active. They were needed to stop a torrent of bad games from appearing and ruining Mafia. However, like the League system, their time may be coming to an end. Newer, more streamlined rules are needed. Improvements are needed.

I suppose I'll start with the Three Game Rule. This requires good* posts to come from three separate games. However, as more people seem to be joining the forum for Mafia, and are all ready experienced, perhaps this rules needs to be altered somehow. One reason is that several hosts seem to have a massive aversion to deadlines, causing game drag. However, some hosts using deadlines, keeping game moving. This means potenial hosts are effectivly being punished for the actions of others, which is always bad.


*What consistutes 'good posts' also needs talking about.
__________________
This space unintentionally left blank
hyperme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 02:59 PM   #2
texasjoshua
Secretly Dr. Lunatic
 
texasjoshua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Not Texas :(
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

I agree. It may be time to revise and edit the way mafia is played or looked at on hamumu. I still think that at least one or two games should be played simply for the fact of seeing how hamumu plays. Maybe we should also add in more basic clear rules with one thread to go to, and restating the basic hosting rules thread and making that more clear. Either way, tell me what to do and I'm willing to help.
__________________
Quote:
We are GWF. You will be assmilated. Your post making distinctiveness will be added to our own. You threads will be adapted to serve us. Resistance is Futile.
When life gives you lemons? Don't make lemonade. Make life take the Lemons back! Get Mad! I don't want your lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?
texasjoshua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 06:09 PM   #3
Sakura-chan
Banned
 
Sakura-chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 341
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Hosting requirements do need to be easier to find, and they definitely need to be fixed up. Also, like I've been saying since I joined, there needs to be a general Mafia guide. I've played three games here, and people keep randomly changing things up. For example, there was talk in one game of the possibility that the host had thrown in things like a "insane" role and the like. While I've heard of these things before, I've never played a game with them inside. Throwing random, unexplained mechanics into a game can make things more confusing than fun, as well as unfair. Another example, is the role of the "Godfather". In most Mafia games I've played, the GF makes the Night Kill. So I was completely blindsided in Donkey Kong Mafia, when the GF was able to make me perform the Night Kill, without even my consent, costing me my life, since I didn't use my power that would have made it succeed no matter what. This is a huge problem. Too many games make their own rules but don't clearly tell the players what these rules are. You can't just throw in things people don't understand like that.

As for the hosting itself, I never heard that the three posts had to be from three different games. This doesn't make sense. First, I was killed at the very beginning of one of my games, which happens to a lot of people. And it really makes no sense to me to need to post three posts like that. I don't think that should be required. It's pretty obvious that I know how to play, and having to find three posts to prove it is really vague and difficult.
Sakura-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 07:14 PM   #4
texasjoshua
Secretly Dr. Lunatic
 
texasjoshua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Not Texas :(
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

I guess i see your point, I'd advise in the future that hosts post a massive role list of possible roles and you can draw from that. In fact, I'll do that here in a bit. I'll post all known roles and if anyone else wants to add to that they can PM me.
__________________
Quote:
We are GWF. You will be assmilated. Your post making distinctiveness will be added to our own. You threads will be adapted to serve us. Resistance is Futile.
When life gives you lemons? Don't make lemonade. Make life take the Lemons back! Get Mad! I don't want your lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?
texasjoshua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 08:40 PM   #5
SpaceManiac
Veteran Programmer
 
SpaceManiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,079
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

One thing the three-post rule does is ensure that not only are you experienced with Mafia, but you are experienced with Hamumu mafia, which you yourself have stated is quite different than Mafia played elsewhere.
SpaceManiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 09:05 PM   #6
Megadog
The Demagogue
 
Megadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At home duhhh!
Posts: 2,416
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura-chan View Post
I've played three games here, and people keep randomly changing things up. For example, there was talk in one game of the possibility that the host had thrown in things like a "insane" role and the like. While I've heard of these things before, I've never played a game with them inside. Throwing random, unexplained mechanics into a game can make things more confusing than fun, as well as unfair
Where I do agree that basic rules should remain normal, I don't think you should have to explain these things. For instance, in my Tracer Mafia game, all the townies had lost their memory. They KNEW the exact conditions for memory loss, and the mafia didn't. This aided in the town, who were badly crippled at the start. Further more, I had specialist roles who were only useful in THAT game, and posting about them may have ruined the game. Basic rules are OK, but I feel that hosts should be able to reserve the right to do what they like to their game, as long as it works as a game, and is, in fact, mafia.
__________________
Back to the roots: Lets put the Hamumu back into Hamumu Forums!
Megadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 11:48 PM   #7
CheeseLord
No One Is Perfect
 
CheeseLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The dead center of the universe.
Posts: 1,590
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Mafia is, almost by definition, a game of incomplete information. Requiring the host to tell the players more than their own roles doesn't really fit the spirit of the game. There are some good lists out there that describe common roles, such as this one, but it's silly to limit hosts to using common roles. If you, as a player, don't know the role or game mechanic that people are referring to, ask and someone will explain it, rather than complaining about how unfair it is that you don't know.

Most of the requirements for hosting (and the rules for playing) are in place because games without them were broken. When we didn't require people to have played three games before signing up, we ended up with a lot of hosts who didn't really understand the game. The same went for people who didn't say anything in their first few games (whether they were dead or lurking). Hosting is generally a lot better now that we require people to have played three games and said something of value in each. I don't see any reason to change that requirement.
__________________
There is often a method to the madness, but always a madness to the method.

Without loss of generality, assume I am a squirrel.

I'm not an actor, I just play one on TV.
CheeseLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 11:59 PM   #8
Sakura-chan
Banned
 
Sakura-chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 341
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

But the three-post rule doesn't really show any such thing.

I'm just saying that things need to be clear. But it's not really fair to go throwing in a bunch of mechanics that no one knows about or having roles that work in a way we don't know. If the GF normally can't do something like what I said, and then he suddenly can in one game, it's inconvenient for everyone. And here you are again making accusations. I DID ask. And I was told that the host didn't want to spoil the game. It only caused trouble, because people didn't understand.
Sakura-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 01:22 AM   #9
Felixrain
has transformed!
 
Felixrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: That's a good question. I'm not quite sure at the moment, give me a little time to think about it.
Posts: 736
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura-chan View Post
I'm just saying that things need to be clear. But it's not really fair to go throwing in a bunch of mechanics that no one knows about or having roles that work in a way we don't know. If the GF normally can't do something like what I said, and then he suddenly can in one game, it's inconvenient for everyone.
I assume you are referring to me on this point. I couldn't reveal that because it would then alert everybody that there was some sort of role which was bound to manipulate that mechanic. And there was.
__________________
Tropical Trouble - 100%! Hooray!!!
Quote:
If anyone does a starting akin, accomplish it about also-ran. He is the absurd adventure bold's capital appearance (usually)!
- A spambot
Felixrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 05:17 AM   #10
Sakura-chan
Banned
 
Sakura-chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 341
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

The Mafia should have known. And it's not just you.
Sakura-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 08:14 AM   #11
CheeseLord
No One Is Perfect
 
CheeseLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The dead center of the universe.
Posts: 1,590
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura-chan View Post
But the three-post rule doesn't really show any such thing.
It ensures that the player has made significant contributions to enough games. Trust me, it's improved the quality of hosting.

Quote:
I'm just saying that things need to be clear. But it's not really fair to go throwing in a bunch of mechanics that no one knows about or having roles that work in a way we don't know. If the GF normally can't do something like what I said, and then he suddenly can in one game, it's inconvenient for everyone.
A lot of games involve mechanics that aren't familiar to everyone. Part of the fun of mafia is figuring out what the mechanics are. If you don't know what your leader can do, that's a problem with communication on the part of the mafia, not a problem with the way the game is set up.

Quote:
And here you are again making accusations. I DID ask. And I was told that the host didn't want to spoil the game. It only caused trouble, because people didn't understand.
Ask the other players what they're referring to, don't ask the host for additional details about the setup. The host's role is to provide a scenario where the players do not have all the information. The players are supposed to help each other figure out what's going on. It's normal for the host not to want to tell you what's going on.

Also, I really don't appreciate the confrontational attitude. I am not accusing you; I'm trying to help you solve your problem. Taking everything I say as a challenge makes me want to help you less.
__________________
There is often a method to the madness, but always a madness to the method.

Without loss of generality, assume I am a squirrel.

I'm not an actor, I just play one on TV.

Last edited by CheeseLord; 09-22-2011 at 08:15 AM.
CheeseLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 09:40 AM   #12
Pewskeepski
Peanut Gallery
 
Pewskeepski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: A deep, dark, icy dungeon beneath Antarctica!
Posts: 1,270
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Sakura, hosts here at Hamumu change the rules a lot. Just look at the game going on right now, being hosted by Sonicchaos. We don't take the game as seriously as other websites do, and thus we do things like making custom roles, and changing the game in different ways. In my opinion, this makes it more fun because then you have this knowledge of a possibility that something strange could be afoot

(Like in mafia 10. What was the cause of that orange text I still wonder )
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid idea.

Last edited by Pewskeepski; 09-22-2011 at 09:41 AM.
Pewskeepski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 10:22 AM   #13
Thirdkoopa
Less Puny Mortal
 
Thirdkoopa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Why not just post hosting guides in the first post of here for now?
I'd like to see considering I had interest. I feel the quoting rule is a bit dumb, as there should be explanations (I.E. Preferred deadlines) and hosting/modding =/= playing. I started modding after I played my first setup.
Thirdkoopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 10:34 AM   #14
hyperme
Not Evil, Just British
 
hyperme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Britain
Posts: 1,322
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Well this has gone violently off topic. This meant to be about becoming a Host, not being a Host. However, Hamumu Mafia is often odd, however all good hosts post any important rules in the thread. Personally, I'd tell the Mafia if any of their members had a special power, because there's no reason not to.

On topicish, does the two-week(?) edit rescrition apply to the moderation staff? If so, the current Hosting Signup thread needs to be locked. Then a new out needs to be created, with the requirements for hosting stated in the first post. And nothing else. If it doesn't, just edit the first post to be correct. I don't care that you can find the rules if you look in the thread. They should be in the first post as there is no indication that the rules are different until you try to host.
__________________
This space unintentionally left blank
hyperme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 01:44 PM   #15
sonicchaos1993
Chaos sold separately.
Moderator
 
sonicchaos1993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Definately not behind you
Posts: 1,429
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperme View Post
Well this has gone violently off topic. This meant to be about becoming a Host, not being a Host. However, Hamumu Mafia is often odd, however all good hosts post any important rules in the thread. Personally, I'd tell the Mafia if any of their members had a special power, because there's no reason not to.

On topicish, does the two-week(?) edit rescrition apply to the moderation staff? If so, the current Hosting Signup thread needs to be locked. Then a new out needs to be created, with the requirements for hosting stated in the first post. And nothing else. If it doesn't, just edit the first post to be correct. I don't care that you can find the rules if you look in the thread. They should be in the first post as there is no indication that the rules are different until you try to host.
The two-week edit restriction doesn't apply, but since none of us are Hammered it's probably better to create a new one anyways.

On that topic, a new sign-ups thread has been posted and stickied. Let me know if I missed a rule when re-posting it.
__________________

AGLA FL15 Pro Circuit Champion - Tank for Hybrid Theory (AGLA) - Captain/Hybrid for Zero Logic (GGL)
sonicchaos1993 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 03:08 PM   #16
texasjoshua
Secretly Dr. Lunatic
 
texasjoshua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Not Texas :(
Posts: 1,069
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pewskeepski View Post
Sakura, hosts here at Hamumu change the rules a lot. Just look at the game going on right now, being hosted by Sonicchaos. We don't take the game as seriously as other websites do, and thus we do things like making custom roles, and changing the game in different ways. In my opinion, this makes it more fun because then you have this knowledge of a possibility that something strange could be afoot

(Like in mafia 10. What was the cause of that orange text I still wonder )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura-chan View Post
The Mafia should have known. And it's not just you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdkoopa View Post
Why not just post hosting guides in the first post of here for now?
I'd like to see considering I had interest. I feel the quoting rule is a bit dumb, as there should be explanations (I.E. Preferred deadlines) and hosting/modding =/= playing. I started modding after I played my first setup.
We're all pretty layed back here, Most hosts will probably explain any special game mechanics and if they don't then ask! its possible they forgot to put something in.
__________________
Quote:
We are GWF. You will be assmilated. Your post making distinctiveness will be added to our own. You threads will be adapted to serve us. Resistance is Futile.
When life gives you lemons? Don't make lemonade. Make life take the Lemons back! Get Mad! I don't want your lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?
texasjoshua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 08:52 PM   #17
Sakura-chan
Banned
 
Sakura-chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 341
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

This is getting irritating.

How can I ask other players about things like that? It's the kind of thing we should just know. The way things are now makes the games unfair and less fun, especially if you are new to Mafia.

And what's with the new sign-up thread? I feel it was created a little prematurely, since we're currently in the middle of discussing hosting requirements. And the thread itself is ridiculous. It makes it sound like we have to have played more than three games, and that wording means it's going to be very easy for a lot of bullying and trouble to be caused. Also, now we have to provide even more posts, specifically from each game. Something needs to be done about this. It's just not right. And the fact that someone went and created that thread while this discussion is ongoing is the worst part.
Sakura-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 09:27 PM   #18
CheeseLord
No One Is Perfect
 
CheeseLord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The dead center of the universe.
Posts: 1,590
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura-chan View Post
How can I ask other players about things like that? It's the kind of thing we should just know. The way things are now makes the games unfair and less fun, especially if you are new to Mafia.
Usually you can say something to the effect of "What do you mean by ____?" People will clarify things for you. That gives you access to the same external knowledge the other players have, which evens the playing field. You can hardly complain that it's unfair if you don't know what someone's saying when you don't ask for an explanation.
__________________
There is often a method to the madness, but always a madness to the method.

Without loss of generality, assume I am a squirrel.

I'm not an actor, I just play one on TV.
CheeseLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2011, 10:30 PM   #19
Sakura-chan
Banned
 
Sakura-chan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 341
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

How can you ask for an explanation of something you didn't even know existed? That's what I just said.@_@

Last edited by Sakura-chan; 09-22-2011 at 10:30 PM.
Sakura-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:10 AM   #20
Megadog
The Demagogue
 
Megadog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At home duhhh!
Posts: 2,416
Default Re: On Hosting Requirements

You can look at the ready made lists of mafia roles available on the interwebs, and if the role in question isn't on there, you probably shouldn't KNOW about it. Speculation is a key part of mafia.

Also, the person who made the thread is one of our most experienced mafia players, and he is also a long time community member and moderator. I see no reason to bring into question his reasoning for making the thread, and discussion of the rules may cause him to change them. He can do that after all. Please accept these facts.
__________________
Back to the roots: Lets put the Hamumu back into Hamumu Forums!
Megadog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Requirements Needed? DJ Fondoo Dr. Lunatic 12 06-07-2012 12:52 PM
New Hosting Rules Suggestion hyperme Mafia & Forum Games 10 09-22-2011 12:00 AM
Vampy Land Requirements Felixrain Loonyland 2 08-13-2010 02:31 AM
Guidelines for Good Hosting Hammered Mafia & Forum Games 14 03-02-2008 06:20 AM
Hamumu Hosting Dave Hettel General Blabber 2 06-16-2004 11:23 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Site Map
Copyright 2017, Hamumu Games Inc.