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Old 12-24-2011, 02:05 PM   #1
hyperme
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Default The SOPA Thread

(Just in time to ruin Christmas Eve?)

Once upon a time there was a dark demon known as the Music Industry. It was mildly powerful, with full control of the distrabution of music. Then, mysterious artifacts know as VCRs and Cassets were created. These allowed your average person to record things and then play them back. The Music Industry was angry. These objects threatened the absolute control the Music Industry had. This was to it, unacceptable. So it used it's dark powers to create a hyperbolic campaign, saying that the new artifacts would destroy music. And film. And entertainment. Of course, they didn't.

Meanwhile, a group of engineers had created a great thing. The Internet. It started small, but over the years grew and grew. It soon became a household item, like TV, Heating and Toasters. It allowed world-wide communication of unseen proportions, connecting people from Paris to New York, from London to Tokyo. Speech had never been freer.

However, this great thing had a dark side. Digital Piracy. Crooks could now create and distrubute copies of software ilegally. This was pretty bad. So the council of wizards got together to put a few, yet mostly unreasonable laws onto the Internet.

This was not enough the Music Industry, or it's siblings, the older Film Industry and younger Game Industry. More communication allowed people to find out all the truths about their products and the Industries themselves. So they looked to tear apart the Internet. However, they could not influence the Wizards directly, so they created cults know as 'Lobby Groups' to corrupted the system for them.

And now their plan will soon bear fruit. The Wizards may soon cast a ritual know only as SOPA. It will give the Industries the power to block any site that has copyrighted content on it that they own. Fully. And I for one, given the whole 'evil cults' thing, don't trust them with this at all. The fact that it's a terrible idea independant of that just mades thing worse.

-----

tl;dr: The USA's government is looking to pass a bill called SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act). It will allow Corparations to block entire sites if they have any content copyrighted by that company. Completely. Since many sites are based in the USA, this will wreak the internet if passed. And what's to stop companies inserting copyrighted content into sites they don't like to shut them down?

Sites that can be effected by SOPA (and legal content they provide):

Youtube (reviews, comedy, let's plays, educational videos)
Image Hosting Sites (image hosting)
Twitter* (Blogging)
Blog sites* (Blogging)
Forums* (Dicussions, forum games)

*Text can be copyrighted.

As you can see, SOPA is both broad and powerful. And in the hands of one of humanity's worst creations, the Corporation. So it's pretty bad.

This thinly veilled anology and explanation has been brought to you by Hyperme, who doesn't like censorship.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

you are forgetting something.
PROTECT IP
SOPA will get shot down rather quickly, but PROTECT IP which isn't as bad as SOPA will look better after this and people will be (a little) more willing to let it pass.
just in time for Christmas when people won't pay as much attention. If it needs to avoid much notice then there is something majorly wrong.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

hmm. I have a mixed opinion on stuff like this. I like music but some artists have too much money. Pop singers make millions in an hour to sing for a few people. The SOPA law will make these huge singers even richer, where i am against SOPA. But here in New Zealand, we have a really neat music industry. (Try YouTubing sixsixty only to be) A lot of these bands are homegrown guys not earning a lot, and the SOPA law will protect the income of these bands. But SOPA was literally invented by the big record labels,, not government politicians. And big record labels dont care about little homegrown Kiwi bands.

tl;dr: 99% FTW
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

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Originally Posted by magic fly View Post
you are forgetting something.
PROTECT IP
SOPA will get shot down rather quickly, but PROTECT IP which isn't as bad as SOPA will look better after this and people will be (a little) more willing to let it pass.
just in time for Christmas when people won't pay as much attention. If it needs to avoid much notice then there is something majorly wrong.
IIRC, Protect IP already got shot down and it's just SOPA now (which isn't actually looking like it'll pass the way the record companies want it to).
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Old 12-25-2011, 06:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

My understanding was that PROTECT-IP and SOPA were two different versions of the same thing, but I'm not that up to date on how the American political system works.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

Here is a list of companies who support SOPA and/or Protect IP. You should print it, and boycott them. Don't give them any more capital. Let them die for attacking our freedoms.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

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Originally Posted by hyperme
And what's to stop companies inserting copyrighted content into sites they don't like to shut them down?
The bill does mention this, but isn't very specific on what determines that a copyright holder is "misrepresenting" a site like this and doesn't necessarily provide a punishment for it:
My problem with this bill, aside from the fact that it's unconstitutional and violates free speech, is that it's a U.S. law that affects the world. How does this law apply when the infringing website is a foreign website? What about sites that have content copyrighted in nations other than the U.S.? There's too many potential conflicts that can take place here.

On top of it, you're telling web server hosts, advertising companies, and search engines with who they can and can't do business with. Web servers can be required to stop offering services to violating websites, search engines can be required to take violating websites off of their search results, advertising companies aren't allowed to do business with violating websites. You're violating free-business principles as well as free speech.

Even more worrying is the possibilities this opens up for the future. What's stopping the government from saying that ISPs have to block internet access to users who access websites that violate SOPA? Now you're infringing on peoples right to privacy. This bill opens too many doors that lead to too many paths we don't want to travel...

As far as boycotting companies who support this go, I feel that most of these companies are supporting this to protect their intellectual property, and not because of the free-speech repercussions it'll have. Some may not even recognize the repercussions this bill will have. But hey, boycotts can change their minds... so if you feel like it, go for it.

Also, if you like the U.S., write your state's congressmen/women and urge them to oppose this bill. If you're voting next year, check how they voted on this bill. I know that I don't want anybody who supports this running our country.
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

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Originally Posted by sonicchaos1993 View Post
As far as boycotting companies who support this go, I feel that most of these companies are supporting this to protect their intellectual property, and not because of the free-speech repercussions it'll have. Some may not even recognize the repercussions this bill will have. But hey, boycotts can change their minds... so if you feel like it, go for it.

Also, if you like the U.S., write your state's congressmen/women and urge them to oppose this bill. If you're voting next year, check how they voted on this bill. I know that I don't want anybody who supports this running our country.
You see, this bill will affect everybody in an incredibly negative way. If some CEOs are too stupid or ignorant to realize what this bill implies, they don't deserve my money anyway.

In any way, I think it is appropriate here to point out that Ron Paul is against both SOPA and Protect IP, just as he was against the NDAA and the Patriot Act. He also is strongly against the US's imperialistic international policy and the wars. His religious views are incredibly insignificant compared to those issues, and it would be a treacherous act for any American not to vote for him. He is your only chance to save your country from fascism, short of a revolution. Does it really have to come to that?
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:15 AM   #9
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You see, this bill will affect everybody in an incredibly negative way. If some CEOs are too stupid or ignorant to realize what this bill implies, they don't deserve my money anyway.
Implying CEOs deserve my money in the first place. But that's a different debate.

Also, Ron Paul is evil. He very State's Rights in a 'ban teh gays!' way. He also is one of those 'no redefine marriage for modern times' people, which is also pretty 'ban teh gays!'. WHICH IS BAD.
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Old 12-26-2011, 05:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

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Implying CEOs deserve my money in the first place. But that's a different debate.

Also, Ron Paul is evil. He very State's Rights in a 'ban teh gays!' way. He also is one of those 'no redefine marriage for modern times' people, which is also pretty 'ban teh gays!'. WHICH IS BAD.
That is true. It is also a trivial matter compared to SOPA, NDAA, and the wars. I would much rather see a world where homosexuals can't marry in some US states than a world where there is no freedom of speech on the internet, there is fascism in America, and America keeps starting new imperialistic wars.

Also, nobody buy console games. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all support either SOPA, Protect IP, or both. If you want a console game, buy it used. Ebay and Amazon don't support SOPA or Protect IP. This is very important.
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

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Originally Posted by hyperme View Post
Also, Ron Paul is evil. He very State's Rights in a 'ban teh gays!' way. He also is one of those 'no redefine marriage for modern times' people, which is also pretty 'ban teh gays!'. WHICH IS BAD.
'Ban teh gays!'? He may not agree with gay marriage, but it's not like he's going to outlaw homosexuality. And yes, afaik he wants to let states decide whether they want to legalize it there. (Side-thought: President Obama hasn't really been that supportive of gay marriage anyways, has he?) But I suppose this is off-topic...

Anyhoo, there's plenty of read about on other sites. If you want to learn more or go discuss/argue about it. Reddit's sub-forum "r/politics" has A LOT on this subject.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:32 AM   #12
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That is true. It is also a trivial matter compared to SOPA, NDAA, and the wars. I would much rather see a world where homosexuals can't marry in some US states than a world where there is no freedom of speech on the internet, there is fascism in America, and America keeps starting new imperialistic wars.
And if Ron Paul wanted to repeal the Forthteenth Amendment to the America Constitution, that would be okay since he's pro-freedom of speech?

Quote:
Also, nobody buy console games. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all support either SOPA, Protect IP, or both. If you want a console game, buy it used. Ebay and Amazon don't support SOPA or Protect IP. This is very important.
Ebay and Amazon have business reaons to oppose SOPA. The whole 'if anyone puts copyrighted stuff on your site, you go down' thing would kill them overnight. Of course, lots of Internet businesses are against SOPA because they know how the Internet works.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:39 AM   #13
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And if Ron Paul wanted to repeal the Forthteenth Amendment to the America Constitution, that would be okay since he's pro-freedom of speech?
That would never happen. Especially considering Ron Paul's "The constitution is holy" attitude. Instead of addressing the fact that Ron Paul is a million times better than all alternatives because he is against America's imperialism, you are throwing hypotheticals. Don't do that.
Quote:
Ebay and Amazon have business reaons to oppose SOPA. The whole 'if anyone puts copyrighted stuff on your site, you go down' thing would kill them overnight. Of course, lots of Internet businesses are against SOPA because they know how the Internet works.
Doesn't matter, they are protecting our interests. By buying used games off them you are getting the games you want without supporting SOPA. By buying them new you are supporting it. When given the choice of paying Nintendo or Ebay, I will pay Ebay, as it is the one that is not betraying me right now. I care about the actions, not the motivations behind them.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:06 AM   #14
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you are throwing hypotheticals. Don't do that.
Quote:
a world where there is no freedom of speech on the internet, there is fascism in America, and America keeps starting new imperialistic wars.


Quote:
Doesn't matter, they are protecting our interests. By buying used games off them you are getting the games you want without supporting SOPA. By buying them new you are supporting it. When given the choice of paying Nintendo or Ebay, I will pay Ebay, as it is the one that is not betraying me right now. I care about the actions, not the motivations behind them.
But motivations are pretty important. However let's not bring up that debate again.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:20 AM   #15
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a world where there is no freedom of speech on the internet, there is fascism in America, and America keeps starting new imperialistic wars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperme View Post
You see, those are not hypotheticals, as those are either already happening, or legislation is passing to enable them. America has been constantly invading countries, be that Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya. The NDAA will allow the military to detain anybody for absolutely no reason indefinitely, and SOPA will give monopolies even more power to abuse (And they are already abusing their power. Did you know they recently brought down a megaupload ad from youtube without owning any content in it?), essentially allowing them to destroy any means of organization the Americans have, and raising a firewall similar to that of China. Websites like Youtube, Wikipedia, Facebook and Google would either be completely destroyed, or severely impaired. Censorship+Indefinite detainment+Nationalistic xenophobic propaganda (Have you seen what some of the Republican candidates are saying?)+Repeated invasions of foreign countries=Fascism.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:11 PM   #16
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You see, those are not hypotheticals, as those are either already happening, or legislation is passing to enable them. America has been constantly invading countries, be that Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya.
Libya was NATO, with France starting the attacks. While America still supported it, it was more of a helping hand to the rebels than a full on attempt to replace the government.

Quote:
The NDAA will allow the military to detain anybody for absolutely no reason indefinitely, and SOPA will give monopolies even more power to abuse (And they are already abusing their power. Did you know they recently brought down a megaupload ad from youtube without owning any content in it?), essentially allowing them to destroy any means of organization the Americans have, and raising a firewall similar to that of China. Websites like Youtube, Wikipedia, Facebook and Google would either be completely destroyed, or severely impaired. Censorship+Indefinite detainment+Nationalistic xenophobic propaganda (Have you seen what some of the Republican candidates are saying?)+Repeated invasions of foreign countries=Fascism.
You forgot the +more corporate power. This changes the equation, so that you end up with either a Facist Oligarchy. Not much or a difference, but still.

Of course blind devotion to the Constituion is silly, because since the Bill of Rights/First Ten Amendments, another 16 are active, so to speak, and the other started the Probation, which was ended by another amendment.

Also, most of the Republican candidates are too right wing. Ron Paul is odd, becaise he doesn't fit most Republican values, but that's what you get for having a system that only gives two parties a chance.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

I'm back here ready to show you that Ron Paul is not the future! Or at least, not the one PE wants.

Things what Ron Paul is against:

Separation of Religion and State:

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders' political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government's hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life."

Ron Paul actually said that. While the actual argument for separating relgion + state is fairly complex, here's a thing that came from non-separation: The Inquision.


Disclosure of campaign funders. This is what got us into the SOPA threat to begin with! Until better regulations and observation are applied who gives politicans money in America, this kind of stuff will keep happening. It also screams 'hiding someting' on Pauly boy's part.


The Federal Governmet + Supreme Court. Paul's view on state rights is along the lines of 'do whatever you want!'. This opens a whole can of worms, espicially when combined with the religion thing.

Ron Paul doesn't look so good now, does he Pumpkineater?
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

Ron Paul aside, what a shocking prospect! "SOPA" - spanish for "SOUP."

I agree with the doomsdayers on this forum thread- left to themselves, the corporations WILL effectively shut the world's internet just 'cuz of Congressional law. That should never happen.

I see a number of problems with this bill. Most reasons have been stated- censorship, the U.S. unfairly affecting the world, and businesses influencing the government. However, the problem of piracy is real.

Piracy, on the other hand, is rather a gray area itself. I find this issue rather like Arizona's immigration policy- if it is suspectecd to be illegal, it could be thrown out.

Another problem I see with this is the 9% approval rating for congress- currently they are NOT reflecting public opinion.

A far more daunting prospect could emerge from this bill being passed- internet warfare. If BUSINESSES have the way to shut down other businesses' websites, it'll be everyone for themselves by way of opening up new websites and having them shot down by the big boss corporations.

I see a way out of this, however. If the law is passed, we should all write to the Supreme Court to try and get them to delcare SOPA Unconstitutional. Yes, the economy runs on lassez-faire, but it is the WORLD'S economy that could be hampered. One man's delicacy is another man's compost, and our SOPA shouldn't become the universal recipe.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: The SOPA Thread

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I see a way out of this, however. If the law is passed, we should all write to the Supreme Court to try and get them to delcare SOPA Unconstitutional.
Or, as has been previously mentioned, we could try to stop the bill BEFORE it's passed. There's a lot of corporations pressuring Congress to pass SOPA, but other companies are pressuring them to vote against it. The public opinion is what can make the difference. An overwhelming majority are against it, but, by not being actively against it, don't make a difference. Write your district's representative, telling them, respectfully, why they shouldn't vote for SOPA. (Some representatives, if you contact them online, have an option where you say if you would like a response or not, if there is, check it, so that it guarantees that at least somebody reads it)

The best chance to stop SOPA is to stop it from ever becoming a law. Waiting until afterwards lessens the chance of success. On top of that, the Supreme Court does not work that way. They can only declare a law unconstitutional if a case dealing with that law reaches the court. This means that a case concerning SOPA would have to make its way through a U.S. Circuit court, then an Appellate Court, then file and be granted a Writ of Certitori (probably spelled that wrong) from the Supreme Court. It's a long process and there's no guarantee of the Supreme Court ever hearing the case. It's much easier to do anything possible to keep the bill from leaving Congress in the first place.

If SOPA is ultimately passed, the best way to oppose it is with the biggest case of civil disobedience the world has ever known. And I don't make that claim lightly. Our generation (and a small percentage of the prior generation, I suppose) knows our way around a computer and the Internet extremely well. If the majority of Internet users were to deliberately try to disobey SOPA, there would be no way the government/corporations would have the time, money, and energy to enforce SOPA. If every violating site files a counter complaint, the courts will be bogged down with thousands upon thousands of SOPA cases. The law will get more exposure in non-Internet mediums, and the public will become more educated about the law and its repercussions. And chances are, the more they learn about SOPA, the more angry about it they'll get. It's a domino effect that'll force the government to rethink they're actions.

On top of that, we can assume that Facebook, Youtube, and every other major Internet company will be against SOPA. If a complaint is filed against a Youtube video, for example, and there is a legitamate counterclaim to be made, wouldn't you think Youtube would file the counter-complaint in hopes that the following court case could lead to the courts looking at SOPA and its constitutionality? Perhaps Google is required by law to exclude a site from their search results from SOPA, and they refuse and take it to court. Google definitely has the time and money to spend on a long, dragged-out court case, they also have to will to fight SOPA if it passes, as does every other major Internet company throughout the world. There's no way this bill will pass without drawing a lot of fire.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:11 AM   #20
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I'm back here ready to show you that Ron Paul is not the future! Or at least, not the one PE wants.

Things what Ron Paul is against:

Separation of Religion and State:

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders' political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government's hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life."

Ron Paul actually said that. While the actual argument for separating relgion + state is fairly complex, here's a thing that came from non-separation: The Inquision.


Disclosure of campaign funders. This is what got us into the SOPA threat to begin with! Until better regulations and observation are applied who gives politicans money in America, this kind of stuff will keep happening. It also screams 'hiding someting' on Pauly boy's part.


The Federal Governmet + Supreme Court. Paul's view on state rights is along the lines of 'do whatever you want!'. This opens a whole can of worms, espicially when combined with the religion thing.

Ron Paul doesn't look so good now, does he Pumpkineater?
Yes, he does. You are constantly ignoring the fact that the alternatives are a million times worse. So what if he doesn't believe in seperation of church and state? Does having to pray at school sound near as bad as the military being able to detain you at any given time for no reason indefinitely? In this time, religion is a non-issue. The media has been constantly painting it as one in order to divide the population, in order to turn the Christians against the Atheists and against the Muslims, preventing them from working together on actual issues. Ron Paul will end America's imperialistic policy. This is arguably the most important issue there is. In its invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, the US has killed hundreds of thousands to millions of civilians. I suppose you think that doesn't matter as long as little billy is stopped from praying at school?
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