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View Poll Results: What is your favorite Nintendo gaming system.
Nintendo 1 14.29%
Super Nintendo 2 28.57%
Nintendo 64 2 28.57%
Nintendo Gamecube 2 28.57%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-29-2014, 06:55 PM   #1
tyconger191
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Default Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

This is my second thread like this, here are some guidelines:
Type about your favorite NES game
Type about your favorite SNES game
Type about your favorite N64 game

[N64 = Nintendo 64]
[SNES = Super Nintendo]
[NES = Nintendo]

Conduct a polite argument with anyone wanting to join in on the discussion (This is fake and it is just for fun, the scenario was thought up) I am also studying what makes a good argument and learning about bioethics, so that is another reason why this activity is being conducted...

Tobias has recently been diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease. He has researched the disease and found out that scientists
have high hopes that stem cell research will provide some advancements to help treat Parkinson’s. In the past, Tobias and his
wife, Justine, have actively been against stem cell research that involved the use of human embryos. They felt that a human
embryo is a human life that should be protected. However, now that he has Parkinson’s, he has been given the option of
participating in a clinical study involving stem cells in which stem cells that have been genetically altered to produce dopamine
are implanted into patients in the hopes of alleviating the symptoms and progression of Parkinson’s disease. Do you think
Tobias should participate in the study? Why or why not?
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Nintendo Gamecube: Super Smash Bros. Melee, this is probably one of the best games I have played.

N64: Sorry I haven't really played it much, which is weird since I am such a Nintendo fan (excluding the wii).

SNES: Contra III, it is incredibly fun to play with a friend, the constant effort that needs to be put in to protect yourself and your friend from losing in the game makes your eyes glued to the screen & it seems to be action packed.

NES: Ghosts n' Goblins, I like the feel & I appreciate games like this that tie in the supernatural.

Already did a bunch of homework for bioethics and feel no need to take part in the discussion because I have been mentally drained by the last discussion I took part in. I will tell you what I have learned from bioethics, it can make you feel like you are not very nice (possibly others will feel that too), but the trick is to not pass judgement on others or yourself. One single item shouldn't represent a person.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Well hi again, Tyler, it's certainly been some time since you last replied to my messages.

Anyway, back on topic.

I think not. Just sticking with one way to cure a person is really intellectually lazy. And also using human embryos is unethical and un-resourceful. In which case, I think he should not participate. It's just intellectual laziness not coming up with multiple ways to solve a problem. And genetically modified stem cells, I fear they have a downside. Just like GM food.

This reminds me of a Star Trek Voyager episode, when some alien species attached itself to B'Ellanes neck and was sucking the life out of her. The doctor took quick actions to program from the memory banks a Cardassian exobiologist named Crill. It turns out he has tortured hundreds of people by doing experiments on them which involves trying to find a cure or solution. The doctor decided to let him operate on her even though he is unethical in his ways.

Last edited by REACTOR; 04-30-2014 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Placed clean cut for some reason
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Well technically Tobias isn't selling out his views if the stem cells aren't from an embryo. And since IVF often leaves leftover embryos you might as well use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
I think not. Just sticking with one way to cure a person is really intellectually lazy. And also using human embryos is unethically clean-cut and un-resourceful. In which case, I think he should not participate. It's just intellectual laziness not coming up with multiple ways to solve a problem. And genetically modified stem cells, I fear they have a downside. Just like GM food.
Okay this is all pretty bad so I'm going to have to break everything down into pieces. Fun times!

1. Performing research is pretty much the polar opposite of being intellectually lazy. It involves actively working to find a new cure. Or just a cure. Sticking to one cure is also a pretty good idea if you only have one cure as well.

2. What does unethically clean cut even mean?

3. Generally, embryos used in stem cell research are embryos left over from IVF, or specially created stem cell lines. Given that the embryos have already been created, once again your argument is contractual to reality. Not using these resources in research would in fact be wasteful.

4. Also, problems can have a finite number of solutions. This is good, or Maths wouldn't work.

5. If humans never did anything because there might be a downside, we'd never would have invented fire. Or agriculture. Or civilization. So that ship has irreversible failed. Once you know there is a downside, things change. But you need to actually perform the experiments first to actually find out if if there are downsides.

5a. Protip: A study with a sample size less than 30 is statistically irrelevant. A study without a control group is also pretty bad.

6. GM foods are safe to eat. Assuming you live in a country with food regulations, it would be illegal to sell GM food if it was harmful. Generally, most 'issues' with GM food are actually related to business practices. Which is like arguing against planes because they can be used to drop bombs.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

NES

I really want to pick a heavy hitting puzzle game like tetris, mario's picross, solomon's key, or even the arcade port of QIX, but in the end I would have to say super mario bros. 3.

SNES

This thing is quintessential Nintendo. SquareEnix-Nintendo relations were at their peak for Rpg fans, producing stellar titles like Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy 6, which along with mario's rpg, were good enough to appeal to people who normally hate the genre. Arcade ports appeared that didn't lose much in conversion, and finally Nintendo delivered. Super Metroid peaked the series out in a way that castlevania wouldn't match until Symphonoy of the Night, mario kart gained so much popularity that it became its own sub-genre of racing game. And Link to the past ended all doubt that Nintendo was just a maker of games. What I remember most is that it was the golden age of platformers, and I conclude by saying that Yoshi's Island is my favorite game of all time.

N64

I've failed in my attempt to pick favorites here. Despite my insistence that only 80 of them are worth playing, I own a full 225 of the 387 games, only being able to abstain when faced with bad ports. rereleases, and updates (sports). I even went so far as to track down the likes of Starcraft 64, Sin and Punishment, and Ogre Battle. I can say that it was Banjo Kazzoie that hooked me in the first place.

GCN

I go to all the trouble of luring (inviting/offering homemade food) people to my house in the hopes of showing them a good time, and super smash bros. melee thwarts the combined forces of the N64 and an obsessively well rounded selection of movies. Lots of good games on this system, but they don't really pack the spectacle of their predecessors. Call it "the vibe". The controller mapping for the midway william's collections does allow you to experience splat, smash tv, gauntlent, super sprint, and san francisco rush 2049(I still see it as standalone n64 though) in glorious split screen, but not enough to deny kudos to Melee.

Wii(totally a seventh generation device)

Boom Blox is one of a mere handful of games that feel like you can only experience it on Wii, and its a pretty great multiplayer experience, although its sequel was subtly ruined by the game giving the towers less time to fall before scoring/switching to the next player, not to mention cheapening the progress system.

Wii U

Rayman Legends, which is probably the perfect throwback game on any system ever.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperme View Post
Well technically Tobias isn't selling out his views if the stem cells aren't from an embryo. And since IVF often leaves leftover embryos you might as well use them.



Okay this is all pretty bad so I'm going to have to break everything down into pieces. Fun times!

1. Performing research is pretty much the polar opposite of being intellectually lazy. It involves actively working to find a new cure. Or just a cure. Sticking to one cure is also a pretty good idea if you only have one cure as well.

2. What does unethically clean cut even mean?

3. Generally, embryos used in stem cell research are embryos left over from IVF, or specially created stem cell lines. Given that the embryos have already been created, once again your argument is contractual to reality. Not using these resources in research would in fact be wasteful.

4. Also, problems can have a finite number of solutions. This is good, or Maths wouldn't work.

5. If humans never did anything because there might be a downside, we'd never would have invented fire. Or agriculture. Or civilization. So that ship has irreversible failed. Once you know there is a downside, things change. But you need to actually perform the experiments first to actually find out if if there are downsides.

5a. Protip: A study with a sample size less than 30 is statistically irrelevant. A study without a control group is also pretty bad.

6. GM foods are safe to eat. Assuming you live in a country with food regulations, it would be illegal to sell GM food if it was harmful. Generally, most 'issues' with GM food are actually related to business practices. Which is like arguing against planes because they can be used to drop bombs.
Well maybe you're right. I totally have my argument 180 degrees wrong. I'll think of what you said and maybe make a better reply.

But what I don't agree with is GM foods.

Studies done on animals with GM food in their diet, shows that they have a higher risk of developing cancer. - Guardian

Allergies in children have doubled since they started using GM foods in the 90s. - Huffington Post

A GM species of corn is based on a chemical component, which was used in the Vietnam war, Agent Orange. This chemical caused deformities in children. - Huffington Post.

Okay, I guess you'll say, well I don't really know what you will say. But it seems pretty scary, and why would these sources make things up? It just seems pointless. So in my opinion, I think GM food already has a downside.

I'll think of a theory as to why they are using it, and maybe come back to this thread.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

On lighter topics, I would prefer the Nintendo Wii. It's simple, has easy controls, and is not so difficult with controllers as the Nintendo 64. I personally prefer the nun-chuck and remote, you really can't fail there. My favourite game to play on the Wii, is Resident Evil 4.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:57 PM   #8
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The only console I have is a Wii, which is good for Mario Cart, classic Mario, and that's about it.

I used to play all the classics on my cousin's Nintendo 64. Multiple variations of Super Mario Bros, duck hunt, that newspaper boy one, and a bunch of others. Good times.

Last edited by HappyStikBeaver; 04-30-2014 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Pseudoedit
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:50 PM   #9
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Default # line

Question to create discussion: On a number line like this:
Opinion <-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-> Fact
Where would you put science?
Where would you put ethics?
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:33 PM   #10
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyconger191 View Post
Question to create discussion: On a number line like this:
Opinion <-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-> Fact
Where would you put science?
Where would you put ethics?
Science at 7 (really it depends on the science at hand)
Ethics at 1
Maybe people use fact to argue ethics, but I'd say the underlying definition of ethics is based around opinion. Sorry.

Last edited by HappyStikBeaver; 04-30-2014 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Pseudoedit
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
Well maybe you're right. I totally have my argument 180 degrees wrong. I'll think of what you said and maybe make a better reply.

But what I don't agree with is GM foods.

Studies done on animals with GM food in their diet, shows that they have a higher risk of developing cancer. - Guardian
This study was later retracted.

The evidence in this article in anecdotal, giving only testimonials of individuals whose biases are suspect. Without rigorous testing, it's meaningless. Here's an article on a EU website that provides a counterpoint.

This is entirely without meaning. The corn was given a gene that allowed it to have resistance to a chemical component of agent orange. If you want to argue the environmental issue of using the chemical (or the environmental issue of pesticide resistant GMOs in general) or the safety of eating something that's been treated with it, that's fair, but the plant itself is perfectly safe for consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
Okay, I guess you'll say, well I don't really know what you will say. But it seems pretty scary, and why would these sources make things up? It just seems pointless. So in my opinion, I think GM food already has a downside.

I'll think of a theory as to why they are using it, and maybe come back to this thread.
GMOs aren't any more, and possibly less, dangerous than plants bred through traditional means. The genes that are added are generally well understood, and the resulting plants can have their proteins tested for consumer safety because of the controlled nature of it. Traditionally bred plants, on the other hand, can't be as reliably tested because the results of natural breeding are unpredictable, and unless one tests each plant individually, can't be as reliably determined to be safe.

This comes down to a demonization of the "unnatural." One should remember that the terms "natural" and "artificial" don't actually carry any real meaning, especially in terms of health effects. Cyanide is naturally found in apple seeds. Aspirin is artificially produced in a lab.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Before talking about nintendo, bioethics made me think of that one movie where people prime their babies to have desirable traits, and employers use a dna test for them instead of interviews.

But Today I'm thinking about the King Corn documentary, which is pretty mind boggling on its own. The cows fattened on the genetic corn, can not actually survive on it, although this is "fine" since they are taken to the butcher shop before maturity.
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Old 05-04-2014, 11:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

What concept does the number line exactly use. #1 is the top priority? And #7 is the least important?

Well in that case, I would put Ethics straight up to #1, and science near the end.
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Old 11-30-2014, 06:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Then what is this: http://www.responsibletechnology.org...h-risks/1notes
http://www.responsibletechnology.org...-to-Avoid-GMOs
http://www.wanttoknow.info/gmoinyourfood

Lies you say?

Last edited by REACTOR; 11-30-2014 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Can someone overview this thread for me pls? Too many TL;DRs but I have some strong views on GM. Mainy pro-GM.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
Can someone overview this thread for me pls? Too many TL;DRs but I have some strong views on GM. Mainy pro-GM.
tyconger produces a weird hybrid thread
REACTOR does their typical 'oh noes modern technology thing'
hyperme does that weird thing where he cuts up a post. (ew!)
REACTOR is scared of GM foods.
darkguyhades isn't, and sources his argument.
REACTOR comes back 7 months later without peer-reviewed literature.

also people like Nintendo.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

peer-reviewed literature?
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
Can someone overview this thread for me pls? Too many TL;DRs but I have some strong views on GM. Mainy pro-GM.
A few highlights from the sources/other sources:
  • Animals who ate GMO foods died from bleeding stomachs. Also they have a higher chance of developing cancer.
  • GMO foods contaminate the environment heavily, we are already seeing a decline in bees, might as well say goodbye to that delicious honey we would buy.
  • GMO foods apparently caused more allergies in people.
  • Scientists who discovered problems with GMO have received anonymous death threats.
  • If buying GMO seeds, you must sign an agreement which restricts you from researching them.
I think GMO foods are a major risk. The cons out way the pros in this case, and for other reasons too.

Cons include:
  • Introducing allergens and toxins to food
  • Accidental contamination between genetically modified and non-genetically modified foods
  • Antibiotic resistance
  • Adversely changing the nutrient content of a crop
  • Creation of "super" weeds and other environmental risks
Benefits include:
  • Increased pest and disease resistance
  • Drought tolerance
  • Increased food supply

Last edited by REACTOR; 12-01-2014 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Forgot to add Pros And Cons
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:38 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
peer-reviewed literature?
Peer review is when an author who wants to publish a paper (or book), lets their work be evaluated by other people who are professionals in the field. They usually do this to prove it's legit and get it published. When citing evidence this is probably the silver standard for citing sources. (the gold standard is peer reviewed books, because the process for publishing a (non-self-published), book in academia is rigorous to say the least. Also when citing books the author says a lot more things and everything is discussed in more depth which is always good.

(without taking the time to check), the sources you cite are not peer reviewed, although to be fair I don't think DGH's is either.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:51 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bioethics / Nintendo Classics

Sorry for the double post

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
A few highlights from the sources/other sources:
  • Animals who ate GMO foods died from bleeding stomachs. Also they have a higher chance of developing cancer.
  • cite?
    Quote:
  • GMO foods contaminate the environment heavily, we are already seeing a decline in bees, might as well say goodbye to that delicious honey we would buy.
  • cite for the connection of GMO and bees
    Quote:
  • GMO foods apparently caused more allergies in people.
  • a new cite? One that doesn't, in turn, cite the study that you previously cited? DGH is correct in saying that study has been withdrawn.
    Quote:
  • Scientists who discovered problems with GMO have received anonymous death threats.
  • I'm just gonna assume this one is true. People can suck sometimes.
    Quote:
  • If buying GMO seeds, you must sign an agreement which restricts you from researching them.
  • I'll believe this too. I am not a fan of Monsanto. I will say this is a problem with the current implementation of GMO rather than the concept of GMO in and of itself. There is a huge lit base on why Monsanto is evil.
Quote:
I think GMO foods are a major risk. The cons out way the pros in this case, and for other reasons too.

Cons include:
  • Introducing allergens and toxins to food
  • Accidental contamination between genetically modified and non-genetically modified foods
  • Antibiotic resistance
  • Adversely changing the nutrient content of a crop
  • Creation of "super" weeds and other environmental risks
1 needs a cite, 2 is probably true, but I don't know why I care. 3 may be true, but I'm unsure how much we give antibiotics to plants. (unless the arg is it causes antibiotic resistance in humans in which case you definitely need a cite), 4 needs a cite, 5 needs a cite. Other than the intrinsic agnosticism of doing something there aren't tons of specific risks
Quote:
Benefits include:
  • Increased pest and disease resistance
  • Drought tolerance
  • Increased food supply
1. is probably true, 2. I wouldn't mind a cite for, 3 is clearly true but it doesn't matter. We have enough food to feed the world and more and it just kinda sits there because people can't afford to buy the food. (citation is lying around. If you want it I can dig it up)
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