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Old 06-03-2014, 09:39 PM   #1
REACTOR
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Default Libertarianism

Libertarianism, some concoction made up by early Europeans when they were colonizing America, and surprisingly, the Europeans are completely different from the Americans nowadays in terms of ideologies.

Anyway, lets debate this issue, should Libertarianism go on? Is it good? What do other people gain from it?
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Coming back to one of Boneheads1999's posts back in my thread, http://hamumu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24436, what do you mean by freedom, freedom has a rather complicated meaning in the English language.

Freedom to do what? Freedom to do anything you want? Freedom to not be restricted by regulations?

Are we in anyway, better in a free society? If Hamumu Software laid down the rule, you have the freedom to post what you want and how you feel, how will it turn up?

And yes, can we pursue what we want? Are we some how more creative?
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Absolute Freedom would be "the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint", as Google says. I believe we would be better off in a free society. And why would we take away the rules from hamumu? If an online service or game wants to be family friendly, that's their choice. If they don't, that's their choice too. But in real life, people should be free to do what they want. Freedom.
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Libertarianism

And what happens if this freedom gets misused?
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Whee! Posting! Libertarianism on the surface sounds like a lot of the Marxism debates that are used. In theory, its a great system but in practice, its hard to get right and would ultimately fail. Would this ideal system have government taxes? Laws? What kinds of laws? Can people rob a shop? Where do you draw the line? Imma have to say im immediately against this concept but id love to discuss the finer points of it.

EDIT: And flicking round the forums I found this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
I thought I would give a little insight into the meaning of this set of images. The story mainly focuses on a person Named marlotte. Pup514's role in this poster is an observer and singer/preacher. She sings out a song from DEVO simply stating that you have the freedom of choice in a true-libertarian society, but at the same time, she is observing Marlotte's decision.

Marlotte, completely oblivious to why the singer is singing and watching her move, whispers out what she shall do to her next victim...

Should I steal? She screams out. There is also Justin383, who plays as his/her future self, when he/she decides to steal. As you can see, her future self has many rare items, which she has stolen...

Should I feel? Mrlolipop is again her future self, but instead of stealing she decides to feel for the victims of scam, and fraud. Thus making her not as rich as she wanted to be.

And the line of, Do you use your freedom of choice then, means that, with all your bad plans, do you still want to go along with it just because you can...
As long as people have the choice to better themselves, however possible, there will be people who steal. This is a part of human nature, and incidentally my main counterargument to communism/Marxism arguments. It sounds to me like libertarianism, as a side effect to giving freedom, gives the right to commit crime. where do you draw the line?

Last edited by Gigacat; 06-04-2014 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Dictatorship of Virtue: Multiculturalism and the Future of America

This book shapes a lot of my political views. I find the transformation of campaigns for rights into machinery to smooth people into society to be disturbing and responsible for deflecting from real issues (even with the best of intentions, which these people usually have).

Their are things that need to be done, but more importantly, a public expectancy that people can be good, decent, and human.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Well, in a free society, committing crime wouldn't be allowed BC that's interfering with other people. Which isn't libertarianism.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneheads1999 View Post
Well, in a free society, committing crime wouldn't be allowed BC that's interfering with other people. Which isn't libertarianism.
Under this concept, who would be allowed to do things such as drive a car or carry and use a gun? Again, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere and im curious as o where you put it.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
Under this concept, who would be allowed to do things such as drive a car or carry and use a gun? Again, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere and im curious as o where you put it.
Driving. You should be able to drive if you're 14 or older, IMO. Then, you should have to follow Traffic Laws, whatever you learn in Drivers Ed, and if you crash into somebody, then you should have to deal with the law. So like it is now, basically. (except, in america, you have to be 16 or older most places)

Guns. Being a Green-Libert-Liberal, I don't like a basic citizen being able bear arms without a full background check & lessons for 3 months or so. To teach them the importance of a firearm. Also, assault rifles are unnecessary and should be illegal. There should be a couple different guns that a regular citizen should be able to buy (with the background check & gun lessons). If you shoot anybody, unless they were doing something seriously bad to you, you should be arrested, IMO.

Guns are something you draw the line on, because they can hurt, and even kill, other people, by just pulling a trigger.

(also, my political stance is green party/libertarian/liberal(democratic))
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Well the main problem is, you can ban guns, but they will still be used. It's just isn't enough to just ban guns and be done with it. The main problem starts with the system, and these questions must be asked: "Why do people use guns", "What's their purpose". And I am sure others with more accurate statements.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Well yes, but you can still do something. The way it is now, IMO, is a horrible gun system (in the United States). Also, I didn't say ban guns, that's a horrible idea. Then there will be gun dealers and stuff, and only bad people would have them. (and probably cops and security) I simply said we should make it harder to own a gun, and you should only be allowed to get the most basic one.
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Last edited by Boneheads; 06-05-2014 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneheads1999 View Post
(also, my political stance is green party/libertarian/liberal(democratic))
>Environmental Protection
>Libertarianism

Pick one.

Yeah, libertarianism. It sounds like a fun time, however the loudest of libertarians are generally so anti-government you'd think they'd like unsafe drinking water. It's interesting to see people equate economic liberty will personal liberty when in the past extreme economic freedom pretty much lead to the poor being treated almost like cattle. Not fun times.

On guns:

If you have guns everywhere already, gun control means what Boneheads said I guess. Keep the things out of the hands of lunatics, make sure people can use them safely and have them registered. People don't object about any of those for cars, which aren't (intended as) deadly weapons.

On 14 year-old people driving:

No. Would you let a 14 year-old use a gun?


Really, 'absolute freedom' seems to be a abstract ideal that cannot be obtained. Humans tend towards organization, and over 5000 years of civilization is proof of that.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Took a quick isidewith quiz, here's my results: http://www.isidewith.com/results/546721162
Looks like I'm 95% Democratic, 94% Green Party, 72% Socialist, 17% Republican, and 57% Libertarian.

One freaky thing I found when doing this, is that the green party's stance on guns is increased gun control, and: "and ban all guns from public use". Don't agree on that one. (banning guns, not gun control, I want gun control)

In all honesty, I don't care about the environment. I side with the green party on like legalizing Marijuana, and gun control, and some other stuff I guess.

Also, in Idaho, (which I'm 20 minutes away from) If you're 14 and a half, you can start taking drivers ed AFAIK. And I'm almost that age.
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Old 06-05-2014, 03:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Libertarianism

On that poll, I was 92% Green, 88% Demo, 64% Socialist and Libertarian and only 10% Republican. Evidently, I sit heavily left.
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Again, America, Federal Governments, ???.

I decided to do the quiz, and this is what my poll is:

93% Green Party
83% Democrats
68% Libertarian
66% Socialist
23% Republican

Last edited by REACTOR; 06-05-2014 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:14 PM   #16
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Default

Sorry reactor


Keep in mind that this is from someone who tries to avoid any sort of political influence.

Last edited by HappyStikBeaver; 06-05-2014 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Pseudoedit
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Looks like im a green/democrat on the quiz. http://www.isidewith.com/results/547850314 . that seems legit to me. The issue I have with libertainianism is that people will take advantage of the slacker laws, similar to What REACTOR said. However, I must point out, I have found the majority of internet and gamers to be nice people. Today i saw a guy in town wearing a DotA shirt and had a great convo with him.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Libertarianism

And a huge implication would be rights for animals. By saying, "Anyone would be allowed to pursue what they want as long as they don't harm another person", do you only mean people?
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Libertarianism

Reactor, I suggest you take the ISideWith quiz. Then post your results here.
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Old 06-08-2014, 05:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Libertarianism

http://www.isidewith.com/results/548778554, well I did the poll and here were my results, what do you make out of it?
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