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Old 06-14-2014, 08:28 PM   #1
Gigacat
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Default Smart Meters

So i saw a documentary today about the implementation of smart meters around the world. The doco outlines how these were terrible ideas and compromised security, had health risks, were used in spying and cost more than they save. Despite this, people are forced to have them. The health issues in particular shocked me:

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-me...th-complaints/

Corporations have broken and entered properties to install these, and according to the documantary, they have been proven unsafe many times.

Quote:
There are over 6,000 studies showing biological effects from the same form of radiation that smart meters invisibly emit – commonly known as “electro-smog” pollution. Additionally, thousands of people across the United States, Canada and Australia have become ill once smart meters have been installed on their homes. Medical doctors and scientists around the world are speaking out on the dangers of smart meters. Smart meters emit radiation 24/7 and cannot be turned off at night when radiation is the most dangerous for the body and brain. Comparatively, a cell phone – which emits radiation at levels hundreds of times lower – can be turned off when not in use.
Do any of you folk have smart meters? They are installed in some places in New Zealand, but not where I live (yet). Have you guys experienced health issues due to smart meters? Whats your opinion? I always find it hard to find the truth in a matter like this because you have to choose between radicals (even if the radicals are right).
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:31 PM   #2
REACTOR
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Well, I checked the wiki, and if I understood it correctly, our house doesn't have a smart meter, we don't monitor our electricity consumption, we just try to be conservative, we only pay electricity bills, only when the bills come to our house.

And talking about WIFI and all the EMF, my family turns off router at night before we go to bed, so no worries about anything disrupting us :P
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Smart Meters

If I recall correctly (this was an issue where I live for a while), all official studies concluded that there were no health risks, despite claims by people. I think this is the same as when Wifi was introduced and everybody complained about how wifi was making them sick and all of that. Now we have multiple wifis in range at all times and nobody seems to have a problem.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:14 AM   #4
hyperme
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Wait why are we more affect by radiation at night?

Actually more importantly why would a an electric meter need radioactive components? It's entirely possible to detect a current, measure amperage and measure voltage without radioactive things. As for any electromagnetism produced by the meter, here's a news flash: passing a current through any conductor produces an electromagnetic field. That's just how the universe works.

The fact is, unless you're secretly a robot, EM waves from electrical devices are almost entirely safe. Higher wavelengths simply lack the energy ionize, and with the exception of specific wavelengths used in microwave cookers, are to large to have a noticeable effect on the human body. We've been using radio for over a century, and we're still going.

Also a smart meter has no use for any kind of wireless transmitter.
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Smart Meters

From wikipedia: "A smart meter is usually an electronic device that records consumption of electric energy in intervals of an hour or less and communicates that information at least daily back to the utility for monitoring and billing purposes.[7] Smart meters enable two-way communication between the meter and the central system. Unlike home energy monitors, smart meters can gather data for remote reporting."

So I guess there is a wireless transmitter.

Also it does make sense that we would be more sensitive to radiation at night. Our bodies are used to high levels, followed by low levels corresponding to day and night.

[disclaimer: nothing in this post is in favor or against smart meters. I am doubtful of the effects, but haven't done any research so...]
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Smart Meters

We have one on our house with no noticeable effects. As for the EM effecting people, after removing all metal I got to stand beside one of the super-conducting magnets at our university. You don't feel anything.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:03 AM   #7
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Quote:
We have one on our house with no noticeable effects. As for the EM effecting people, after removing all metal I got to stand beside one of the super-conducting magnets at our university. You don't feel anything.
Although I think the corporate bullying here would be minor in comparison to America (no offence :P), how notified/alerted were you about the installation? Whilst Im typically skeptical about government conspiracies, I still think there is a lot of merit in the anti-smartmeter arguments.

In particular, the common argument is that RF has and never has had an effect on humans. However, this has been poorly tested and is commonly based on the assumption that wifi and cell doesn't hurt is, so why should smart meters? Smart meters emit a much more powerful wave than wifi or cell, and do it constantly.In particular, a study involving pregnant mice exposed to Low frequency RF waves produeced this:

Quote:
The increase of body weight of exposed dams (29.0%) was significantly slower than that of the control group (47.8%) during late pregnancy period (P < 0.05). The producing rate of exposed group was 60% of that of control group. Miscarriage, fetal loss and externally malformed fetus appeared in exposed group. The average number of offsprings of each exposed mouse was significantly decreased (11 +/- 1.6 vs 7 +/- 2.0, P < 0.05) and 11 for control group. Regarding the development of offspring, the body weight of prenatally exposed offsprings was increased more slowly than that of the control in the first two weeks after birth (P < 0.05). Developmental manifestations including eye opening [(252 +/- 24) h] and tooth eruption [(336 +/- 19) h] presented later in exposed offspring [(226 +/- 12), (319 +/- 15) h, respectively] (P < 0.05).
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16978513

This link goes to a huge resource of many studies into the subject: http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/science/studies.asp
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
In particular, the common argument is that RF has and never has had an effect on humans. However, this has been poorly tested and is commonly based on the assumption that wifi and cell doesn't hurt is, so why should smart meters? Smart meters emit a much more powerful wave than wifi or cell, and do it constantly.In particular, a study involving pregnant mice exposed to Low frequency RF waves produeced this:



Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16978513

This link goes to a huge resource of many studies into the subject: http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/science/studies.asp
This study looks at extremely low frequency RF waves, which smart meters don't use. Have some counterpoints.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigacat View Post
Although I think the corporate bullying here would be minor in comparison to America (no offence :P), how notified/alerted were you about the installation? Whilst Im typically skeptical about government conspiracies, I still think there is a lot of merit in the anti-smartmeter arguments.
It was already installed in the flat when I arrived. This place has been here a while.

Also, we are constantly bombarded with low frequency waves. Even our own bodies produce low frequency EM waves, as per Black Body Radiation. Most often when I see these arguments, the point against is simply "We don't know what it could do, so it can't be safe."
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkguyhades View Post
This study looks at extremely low frequency RF waves, which smart meters don't use. Have some counterpoints.
And some counter-counterpoints. THIS: http://marylandsmartmeterawareness.o...d-kapaa-kauai/ shows a video of a smart meter capping an RF meter at 2000 uW/cm^2, well over the 200 one of your links quoted. This reading was also from 3 feet, and with based on reading from your link, at one foot this is multiplied by 10, suggesting 20,000 uW/m^2

Id also like to point out that the US is a very capitalist country and much of the law-making is influenced by industry. http://rense.com/general72/oinvent.htm links to a list of renewable energy patents suppressed by the US govt due to the potential loss energy companies could face if they became common.

This ties in here: http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/radiat...c_standard.htm because the US and UK are the only two countries to have Microwave radiation safety level standards high enough to allow for Smart Meters. Indeed, effects on human reproduction have been observed at levels of 1 uW/m^2, (I doubt they are major but not the point when dealing with 2000 uW/m^2 levels) yet [conspiracy!] the corporates increased the level or at least kept it where it is to cash in. [/conspiracy!]

EDIT: Interestingly, one of DGH's links quotes cellphones at ear can reach 5000 uW/cm^2... Despite this being well over every countries limit.

Last edited by Gigacat; 06-16-2014 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: Smart Meters

Look, a smart meter is going to be where ever electricity comes into your house. Unless this is a living area, you are perfectly safe. Why? Because the intensity of an EM wave drops off incredibly quickly. You receive only a quarter of the effect at 2 meters than you do at 1 meter, not taking into account things like walls, which I hear houses usually have. Unless you eat, sleep and work in the same room as a smart meter, you are unlikely to be affected. Additionally, any EM radiation with a frequency lower than that of Ultra-Violet is non-ionizing, no matter how intense. And any Microwaves powerful enough to permanently effect you DNA are going to affect you in more noticeable ways. This is unalterable, as whether a specific EM wavelength/frequency is ionizing is a consequence of how photons and matter interact.

Of course, the physics of the situation are ultimately irrelevant, as smart meters only transmit and receive data when needed. A constant transmission results in increased power consumption, which neither the consumer nor producer wishes to pay for.
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