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Old 11-20-2014, 12:13 PM   #1
hyperme
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Default Nuclear power!

Nuclear Power: Great Energy or Greatest Energy?

Well, until renewable energy stops being terrible, we can all agree that nuclear power is the best! Look at all these benefits:

>Less Carbon Dioxide. Clear that air!
>Nuclear plants release LESS radiation than coal plants. WOW!
>With only 3 disasters you can name, it's safer than flying!
>It creates jobs
>Seriously, Chernobyl was caused by turning off the safety systems.

As you can, Atom Power is the Best Power.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Yay New Zealand! Nuclear is Bad!
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Old 11-20-2014, 05:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Have you heard of Fukushima? They say they are still pumping tonnes of radioactive waste out to this day. And also, Japan says they need no help, and also, they are coming up with stupid ideas that do nothing, and also, the Pacific ocean as we know it may be uninhabitable if this continues.

You can have less Carbon Dioxide, but then you have nuclear waste, what do you do with it? It takes thousands of years for it to break down.

Certainly it wouldn't really be sustainable because Science is getting nowhere nowadays.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Good energy, turns out a bunch of natural disasters (including but not limited to earthquakes, tsunamis solar flares solar storms and anything else that affects the grid), are really bad for nuclear power. This is bad because if the backup systems don't work it causes really really bad disasters, and given that a total collapse now is way worse than it was then this could be really bad. Personally I'm a bit of an advocate for Geothermal energy, although OTEC looks interesting. (I would want to see some trials for OTEC before we go all out. It has the potential to be really really good for the environment, but also the potential to screw everything up)
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Yeah, backup systems aren't reliable enough to stop potential catastrophies.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR
Certainly it wouldn't really be sustainable because Science is getting nowhere nowadays.
Certainly.

Personally I'm very fond of nuclear power. It's frustrating that the nearby nuclear plant is being shut down for few valid reasons.
Quote:
Southern California Edison (SCE) announced June 7, 2013 that it will permanently retire Units 2 and 3 of its San Onofre nuclear plant. SCE concluded that continuing uncertainty about when or if San Onofre Unit 2 might return to service was not good for customers, investors or the need to plan for the region's long-term electricity needs. Safety, stewardship and community engagement will guide SCE as it partners with the community to make the San Onofre decommissioning a national model for the electric power industry.

Last edited by HappyStikBeaver; 11-20-2014 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Pseudoedit
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
Have you heard of Fukushima? They say they are still pumping tonnes of radioactive waste out to this day. And also, Japan says they need no help, and also, they are coming up with stupid ideas that do nothing, and also, the Pacific ocean as we know it may be uninhabitable if this continues.
Fukushima failed because it was built in Japan. You're acting as if every nuclear plant will be hit by a earthquake, tsunami and is staffed by people unwilling to hit the 'wreck the reactor to stop the problem'. Do you know how many nuclear plants there are worldwide? There are 435. You're logic is akin to say that working in tall buildings is unsafe because 9/11 happened.

Also, the Pacific ocean takes up a third of the Earth's surface. It is estimated to contain over 700 million cubic kilometers of water. Even taking ocean currents into account, it is impossible to meaningfully contaminate the entire Pacific Ocean to make it deadly to all life. Water is pretty good absorber of radiation too, so you need massive amounts of radioactive material to irradiate an entire ocean.

Quote:
You can have less Carbon Dioxide, but then you have nuclear waste, what do you do with it? It takes thousands of years for it to break down.
Stick it in a box, bury it under a mountain. Problem solved. Or, we can research better reactors that produce less waste and more usable fuel. Of course, that involves building more nuclear plants, which people are scared of.

On the topic of building nuclear plants: People who campaign against new plants are making the world more dangerous. If new plants are not built, the life cycle of older ones have to be extended. While the possibility of this is probably built into many nuclear plants, the average of nuclear plants is 25 years. I'd rather new plants be built than old ones run far beyond their planned lifetime.

Quote:
Certainly it wouldn't really be sustainable because Science is getting nowhere nowadays.
If we pretend this statement is:

a) meaningful in someway (Science is not some monolithic entity, nor can it be measured)
b) correct (it isn't)

The response is that people like you, you have no understanding of new technology, only fears based on misconceptions and lies, are the reason Science is getting nowhere. Whenever someone tries to do something, you immediately decide to decry it because the idea of something you don't understand scares you, but it you can't be bothered to learn anything about it.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Well that's an all and mighty argument you put at the end...

"The response is that people like you, you have no understanding of new technology, only fears based on misconceptions and lies, are the reason Science is getting nowhere. Whenever someone tries to do something, you immediately decide to decry it because the idea of something you don't understand scares you, but it you can't be bothered to learn anything about it." That is assuming I cast out a vote immediately against anything new without thinking it over first. Nuclear Energy has been around for a few decades now, has it changed? Well maybe... But I will come up with a counter argument in the next day or so.

Need we forget that the fallout from Fukushima reached the Western parts of the USA. That's huge, it's not a lie, if an accident does happen, and it can happen to anyone, the consequences of it can be huge.

Last edited by REACTOR; 11-22-2014 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

I mean it did reach over, but wasn't it too diluted to do any semblance of harm?
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
Well that's an all and mighty argument you put at the end...

"The response is that people like you, you have no understanding of new technology, only fears based on misconceptions and lies, are the reason Science is getting nowhere. Whenever someone tries to do something, you immediately decide to decry it because the idea of something you don't understand scares you, but it you can't be bothered to learn anything about it." That is assuming I cast out a vote immediately against anything new without thinking it over first. Nuclear Energy has been around for a few decades now, has it changed? Well maybe... But I will come up with a counter argument in the next day or so.

Need we forget that the fallout from Fukushima reached the Western parts of the USA. That's huge, it's not a lie, if an accident does happen, and it can happen to anyone, the consequences of it can be huge.
Well certainly Hyperme, you are right that Nuclear Energy is better than almost any other form of conventional energy, and my views might have been making too many assumptions about the roads in which it will develop over the future, well you win this discussion.

But that was a rather harsh comment you put at the end...

Though there are still questions in my mind, the way the world is going now, to me it seems as though it's getting worse. Food portions are getting smaller but also cost more, trying to find a good science book nowadays is non-existent because most of the subjects are watered down, this capitalistic world...

Will Nuclear Energy be the next thing to stinge on?

Edit: Maintenance costs, qualifying staff, etc.
Double Edit: Also, whenever there is a nuclear accident of huge proportions, or maybe small proportions, people try to cover it up. Responsibility is almost not there for something which can be as dangerous as nuclear power. Although there were just a few instances in History when that happened, the consequences of it were huge, millions of people suffered from the Chernobyl incident and the death toll of workers was high, hundreds of people caught cancer from the British incident in the 50s, and now with Fukushima, "We have everything under control.", they say... Probably thousands of people have died since it started and there are already deformities in new born babies over the coasts of North America.

While Nuclear Energy produces less waste, I think we are not ready for it. There has to be a different mindset when dealing with a potentially dangerous technology. Sure some lecturers say that the walls of a power plant are built solid thick, thicker than anything, but it also depends on how well a problem is contained, and whether the staff are cluey as to what they are doing. With Chernobyl, they knew which buttons to press, but they were lacking something.

When a problem cannot be contained, and it blows up in people's faces, how will the government of that country or the main staff react? Also, cleaning up a nuclear incident takes up a lot of money, you have to have a proper isolated site for containing the waste, you have to have properly protected people who deal with the fallout, and in the worst case scenario, you will have to evacuate people from their homes and provide them with some temporary shelter for the moment at hand.

Maybe we will be more advanced in the future and accidents will be a thing of the past, but that is a big Maybe.

Last edited by REACTOR; 11-22-2014 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

*BUMP*

One comment I want to add to this discussion is that while nuclear power might be more renewable than other forms of energy, it's still highly dangerous in the current state of world because there is simply no responsibility or proper action taken to contain any catastrophe.

How can we think to use nuclear power when leaders like Obama (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/presi...ry?id=13158789) talks about utter lies, and Japan is screwing around to still not fix their continuous melting reactor problem which is polluting half of the Pacific Ocean?

Why are we not using Thorium (which is much more abundant and takes less time to decay than Uranium) reactors or Helium cooled reactors that have much better safety margins? While there are problems such as the following:

*Very high costs of technology development, construction and operation.
*Marginal benefits for a thorium fuel cycle over the currently utilised uranium/
plutonium fuel cycles
*The danger of both routine and accidental releases of radiation, mainly from
continuous fuel reprocessing in molten salt reactors.
*The very long lead time for significant deployment of liquid fluoride thorium reactors that could take half a century, rendering it irrelevant in terms of addressing current or medium term energy supply needs.

Mind you, uranium reactors took decades of development so why can't we do the same with other forms of nuclear reactors?

Last edited by REACTOR; 12-19-2015 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention Thorium reactors
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTOR View Post
That's one scary looking image of what your seem to assume is radiation. Let's just post the complete, un-doctored image, shall we?
(Spoiler tags because it's big...)

Oh, so it's actually a map of wave height of the tsunami, not radiation...

Well then, lets look at other factors, like the dangerous nuclear waste produced. There's nothing we can do with that right? We clearly can't use the energy that waste releases to boil water and create electricity!

Wait...

Well, it's still unsafe! Look at the two huge nuclear disasters that have happened since it was invented nearly seventy years ago.

But ignoring the fact that Chernobyl was caused by people purposefully disabling the safety features, and that Fukushima had backup plans after backup plans that each performed perfectly until they were taken out by concatenated natural disasters, that's a pathetic number of failures for something that's apparently more dangerous than flying in a plane or driving a car.



Seriously, this is insane. I don't think nuclear power should be everywhere, due to some places having high natural disaster incidences (particularly on the ring of fire), but it is one of the best power generation methods out there, the only arguable contender (in my opinion) being hydroelectric dams in places where they are reasonable (New Zealand, my home country, relies heavily on these dams. I recently went on a trip to the most important one in the country, which can restart the nation in case of a black out).
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

good job laying out the truths.

didn't actually think to check if the map was actually what REACTOR claimed, mostly due to the 'pacific is massive pool of radiation blocking liquid' thing.
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

How is the Pacific Ocean filled with a radiation blocking thing?
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

Water - just like anything else - blocks radiation. It's literally used as shielding in nuclear power plants. It's not the most effective - but a halving distance of 8 inches at a MeV is more than sufficient. (of course for alpha and beta decay almost no shielding is really required)
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
Water - just like anything else - blocks radiation. It's literally used as shielding in nuclear power plants. It's not the most effective - but a halving distance of 8 inches at a MeV is more than sufficient. (of course for alpha and beta decay almost no shielding is really required)
But can radioactive particles be picked up by water?
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Old 12-25-2015, 01:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: Nuclear power!

I don't know what you are asking. If you are asking if water can move a radioactive source from one location to another - then yes. Just like if I picked up some uranium or uranium ore and threw it, water currents can move radioactive sources. It also blocks the radiation itself from traveling.
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:55 AM   #18
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Default Re: Nuclear power!



In which case, radioactive particles (several isotopes of caesium) can move along these currents and land on the shores of the western coast of the USA.

Last edited by REACTOR; 12-26-2015 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:56 AM   #19
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Radioactive particles did reach the United States (recently, I believe) but they're in such small quantities that it won't do any harm. If you're worried about radiation that much, you'd better not go outside for fear of the sun.

Last edited by HappyStikBeaver; 12-26-2015 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Pseudoedit
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by HappyStikBeaver View Post
Radioactive particles did reach the United States (recently, I believe) but they're in such small quantities that it won't do any harm. If you're worried about radiation that much, you'd better not go outside for fear of the sun.
.-. I think the news is lying about that.
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