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Old 09-11-2003, 12:26 PM   #1
Dave Hettel
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Default September 11th

Two years ago on this day, terror struck New York, Washington, and the rest of America. Many died, and many were injured. I think we should give a moment of silence for those who died or had family members or friends who died on that day in September of 2001.
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Old 09-12-2003, 12:42 PM   #2
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That was quite sad watching all thoes people jump out of the towers. I wish that never happend.
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Old 09-13-2003, 06:00 AM   #3
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i was so incredibly shocked when i saw the aircraft crash into the tower. that was something that was sacrier than a nightmare. it gave me a fear of flying for a long time.
Osama bin laden deserves to die.
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Old 09-13-2003, 08:49 AM   #4
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I, too, was horrified and saddened by the events of Sept. 11. The day it happened I was working at a school and seeing its effects on the students first hand. I am filled with sorrow at the loss of so much life and potential. I am also filled with sorrow at the amount of hatred it has caused in people, especially children. Wishing death on anyone is wrong, in my opinion, and simply extends and magnifies the destruction.

I am sorry that you feel so much anger. I hope that over time you will learn that harnessing your anger into making positive changes rather than planning revenge is a much more effective use of your time and energy. This is true for small things (playground rules, fights with your sister) as well as major world events.

Hatred breeds only more hatred. Humanity cannot grow in times of war. Thoughtfulness and a positive attitude are needed to make effective, long lasting changes in the world.

Peace be with us all.
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Old 09-13-2003, 09:43 AM   #5
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Sol, I think in general you are right. Hatred breeds more hatred. However, I think that in many of the schools in that area, they teach hatred of the infidels (people who differ in religion). The schools are really hard core hate machines and they prepare the boys to become terrorists.
That is why it is important for countries to band together and stand for good and not tolerate criminals that take the lives of innocent people.
We as a people need to do what we can to help and care for people who are less than fortunate than we are by supporting the Red Cross and other types of humanitarian aid.
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Old 09-13-2003, 10:08 AM   #6
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I see what you are saying, Lisa.

Unfortunately, I don't think that a learned distrust and dislike for those who are different is limited to any specific area in the world. It is a plague that runs rampant world-wide. I believe it is more important for us to band together as a united humanity than it is to band together as individual countries when facing down criminals and spreaders of hate.

I couldn't agree more about supporting and assisting those who are less fortunate. My students and I often discuss things that we can do, despite a lack of money or power. Children (and adults) often feel powerless to help. They need to learn that many small actions can effect a large change. If you can't give money, give time. If you can't help everyone, help one. There is always someone who could benefit from your caring and love.
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Old 09-13-2003, 02:38 PM   #7
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And hate... leads to the dark side... :wink: Oh well. I think that whoever can kill 300+ people and not bat an eye deserves to die.
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Old 09-13-2003, 03:15 PM   #8
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It wass really sad...now I know what it feels like to live during a war! :? Oh yes, I am NEVER flying in an airplane again. Never. Why did they have to make me afraid of planes now?!
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Old 09-13-2003, 03:55 PM   #9
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I agree with what you are saying Sol. I think it is great that you are able to teach your students to help others. In some of the middle and high schools here the students are required to do service hours. There are a lot of ways to help others besides giving money. When you help someone that really needs help, it can be a touching experience.
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Old 09-13-2003, 05:04 PM   #10
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I'm sorry, DarkMagus5152, but I don't find anything amusing about this conversation. Hatred is not something that I find funny in any form. Your signature says it best...two wrongs DO NOT make a right.

PurpleKoopa2000, I'm sorry that you are afraid to fly. It's too bad that the actions of some can ruin things for others. I hope that someday you can trust again.

Lisa, thanks for being understanding of a slightly different point of view. I appreciate it. You don't often find that on the internet. You rock!
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Old 09-14-2003, 02:20 AM   #11
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<off-topic>Wow, I inspired a meaningful discussion. Wow! </off-topic>
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Old 09-14-2003, 09:27 AM   #12
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wow, seems so many people has been touched by it, i know i have.
Was any one near by when the plane went into it?
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Old 09-14-2003, 04:47 PM   #13
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I flew half a year later to Denmark from Newark airport.
There was a long wait in the security, and like 1 out of every ten people got a random full check (take off shoes, get scanned all over with one of those hand held scanny things, lot of other painfully long security stuff)
Luckily, no one in my family recieved a random check thingie.
There were several Army Troops with powerful rifles.

Security at the Danish Airport on the return trip was nowhere near the level it was at Newark.

My aunt and her boyfriend live in New York City. My aunt says September 11th seemed like Armageddon with all the smoke and fire.

God Bless America
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Old 09-14-2003, 06:18 PM   #14
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I was watching TV, and they said that there's secret spies on board the planes, so if there ARE any terrorists, they'd better be prepared for a fight! I don't think it's on ALL planes, tho.

PS: Sorry about that hate thing. I didn't think anyone would be offended
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Old 09-14-2003, 09:22 PM   #15
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Apology accepted!
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:05 PM   #16
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I have been following this thread since the topic was first posted, and have refrained from replying for various reasons - primarily because I could write pages and pages on my experiences. I don’t think that would be appropriate in this forum, nor would Mike (jamul) appreciate that space it would consume. First, a little background information:
I was not there that day, but was a few miles away – close enough to see it first hand, and to feel the ground rumble under my feet when each of the two buildings fell. I will not pretend to be a victim or a survivor of this, but I am an eyewitness to the aftermath. Like so many, I too experienced the initial shock and disbelief, though it was the days that followed that really hit hard. What follows is drawn from truly first and second hand knowledge.
I have a very close friend who lived right near the towers, and works two buildings over. He walks to work at the time the first tower was hit, as he did that day. In the days that followed, I tried desperately to contact him, without any luck. It was a week later that I heard from him, and in the weeks, months, and now years since, I’ve heard more and more about what happened before him – it is much like talking to a war veteran or any survivor of a traumatic event. In the weeks after September 11, I visited him several times in his office – from his window there was a painful view of what the aftermath entailed. Because there are young readers visiting this site, I will not elaborate in great detail on what I witnessed first hand, nor what I have been told, nor what I have come to learn. While I have left out the details, some may want to refrain from reading on.
My friend saw a LOT of people die. Many right in front of him (two men standing next to each other – one was killed instantly by a falling beam, and the other was unscathed). As the first plane hit, he was walking on the opposite side of the building. He didn’t know it had been hit by a plane, but looked up to see the tower was on fire. Then came the debris and a lot more. The debris alone killed several people around him. Amazingly, he didn’t panic – only because, as he said, none of it seemed real – not an act of bravery, it just wasn’t computing. I asked if he tried to help the injured – but, in short, at that moment, there was nobody just injured. One of the things I learned later was that little of the donated blood had to be used – you can figure out why. I don’t think it seemed real to many that witnessed it. Somehow, casually, he walked to his office – thinking that the firemen (already on the scene) were just going to put the fire out and everything will be fine. From his office window, he watched the belly of the second plane as it hit tower two. As did many people in the towers, he felt it was safest just to stay put – even though they knew something was horribly wrong. An hour later, tower two collapsed. The cloud darkened his office windows on the 10th floor to pitch black. He and his co-workers tried running out the main stairwell, but people were actually running in and up from the street – some in horrible condition. Using another stairwell, they made it out about 10 minutes after the tower fell – they delay probably saved them from severe injury or worse. They were partially blinded and burned by hot ash. The one thing they could see was that they were tripping on (and most will only know this if they talked to a survivor) were shoes – lots of shoes – stuck to the pavement from the heat when the building first fell. They made it uptown, until somebody helped them (they were covered in ashes). He lost a lot of friends and acquaintances, and watched as many more eventually left the area because they understandably couldn’t continue to watch all that followed, and couldn’t erase what they saw from their minds.
I will say that 99% of anybody reading this has absolutely no idea of how bad it was – that, thankfully, the broadcast news spared many from the unbelievable brutality and absolute horrible and heartbreaking carnage that resulted from these actions. What compounded this horror is that it happened in a capacity that seems almost unfathomable – though, sadly, history often repeats itself – and mass murder of this sort is a part of our past. This and other actions like it are propagated by hate, and very often, greed.
Hatred is fueled by anger, which is a very human emotion. It is not to be denied or ignored (or it will fester and eventually explode) – but dealt with. I think there are many situations where a feeling of hate may arise – whether or not it is appropriate is irrelevant – it is a feeling. If you are human, chances are you will feel hate at some point in your life. Many times, it will be justified – it is when it is acted upon, or how it is acted upon, that may or may not be. It is what you do with that hate that makes a world of difference. We, as thinking beings, can decide whether it consumes and devours us or we can use that energy to drive us to do better things. You can take control over it, or it will control you.
I’m sure the fireman and numerous other emergency service personnel hated fire, hated seeing people fall all around them, hated the danger they were in – but it didn’t stop them from doing the most heroic of any act – they tried to SAVE lives – of every race, color, creed, sex, age, religion, and nationality. In doing so, 343 fireman, 23 policeman, and many others (including a volunteer ambulance driver from my area in his early twenties), died doing the most positive thing one human can do for another.
Approximately 3,025 people were murdered that day – approximately 189 in the Pentagon, 44 in Somerset County, PA, and 2,792 in the World Trade Center. From the World Trade Center, only 1,518 of those have been positively identified. Only 292 whole bodies were recovered. Over 200 people confirmed to have jumped or fallen to their deaths. I watched for weeks as fireman saluted recovered remains no bigger than a shoebox. I watched recovery workers pick hundreds of human remains off of adjacent buildings. I walked in ash that inevitably contained those of somebody’s loved ones. I watched as my cousin, a police officer, has acquired severe breathing problems because he tried to do the right thing by helping in the days that followed. I have seen hundreds of faces plastered on walls and fences of those missing – people who looked like you or me. I pass firehouses with flowers and candles below the pictures of those lost – some their entire crew. I watch so many people cry and cry and cry – and find myself doing the same. Do I hate Osama Bin-Laden and any responsible for this act? You’re **** right I do – and I will make no apology for it. Do I wish he would die? I think that would be too good for him. What have I done with that negative energy? I have accepted and deal with my feelings, but refuse to let it consume me. In the days that followed, like so many of my fellow New Yorkers, we bought and donated supplies for the workers, lined up to give blood, gave money, helped in any way we could. I think we were all surprised at how, instead of screaming and looking to kill, we all just wanted to help each other. Actually – I can thank Osama Bin-Laden for something. I have been reminded that tomorrow is promised to no one, to be thankful for what I have today, and to make sure everybody I care for knows just how much I love them. Through the horror of it all, we got to see an element of bravery and caring for one’s fellow man – in the face of actions that were the polar opposite.
In the end, I observe the date with thought and reflection, to ask myself what I have done to be a better human being, and remember that day and all those affected - out of respect. I visit the site several times a year. And sometimes, I write down my thoughts a post them in a forum (actually - this would be the first).
I don’t think darkmagus5152, who stated his feelings, needed to apologize – it is their feelings, after all. As I stated above; whether or not it is acted upon, and in what way the energy is channeled, is another thing. I focus more on the quote before that statement however, that I think shows some hope: “And hate... leads to the dark side”. Though taken from a Star Wars movie, if the meaning is truly understood, then I think in this lies the hope for a better tomorrow for us all.
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Old 09-15-2003, 06:51 PM   #17
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Pantsman,

Thank you for sharing your feelings about the events of 9/11. I am so sorry that you and your friend had to experience it so personally. I also want to thank you for putting DarkMagus's comment into perspective for me. I understand that hatred and anger are human emotions. That was never the issue. I would never ask someone to apologize for their emotions. My problem was with the seemingly flippant addition to what I felt was a respectful, meaningful conversation.

DM, If I misunderstood, I am sorry. Thank you for sharing your feelings with us. I still disagree with your response to that anger, but I hope you don't feel I was asking you to apologize for being angry.

"It is what you do with that hate that makes a world of difference...You can take control over it, or it will control you." I couldn't agree more. I, too, have done some serious soul searching since Sept. 11, 2001. My anger and frustration (yes, even hatred) at the situation has led me to make some drastic changes in my life in an attempt to avoid being the kind of person that lets hate rule their thinking.

One thing I like about this forum is that, on the whole, is the feeling of friendship and peacefullness. Mike works hard to keep things nice as well as dumb! I guess that is why it is particularly shocking and upsetting to read death wishes, even if they are for an evil, hateful person. My flower-child personality reacts strongly to that. I hope I didn't offend or upset anyone with my comments. I do recognize everyone's right to their own opinions and feelings.

Peace be with you all,
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Old 09-16-2003, 10:34 AM   #18
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PantsMan, I think all of us that weren't there need to be reminded more often of what really happened on September 11. Your thoughts and writing are powerful.
That day I watched on TV and it seemed unreal and impossible--for that reason it is easier for me to forget. We all need to remember so we can better cooperate with those who fight terrorism. Before complaining at the airport, we need to remember. This is not a perfect world and we must sacrifice to make ourselves safer.
I don't know if any of you are Lord of the Rings fans. I generally do not enjoy violence and avoid violent movies, but I did decide to see The Two Towers. I have thought about it often and think it was a really good movie because I could see a parallel between the movie and terrorism. Did anyone else think that?
You have this evil wizard producing (making) those awful monsters, the Orcs, that mindlessly kill. The King wants his people to avoid war and tries to run for safety with his people. The Orcs hunt them down. Meanwhile, the Elves and the Ents (tree people) don't really see it as their battle and don't want to be involved. Then the entire thing about the ring and its power is so interesting.
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Old 09-16-2003, 10:46 AM   #19
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I hesitated to enter this thread, since coming from a foreigner it may be resented. However, in this "war" there are no outsiders. There is no doubt that we in Europe feel immense sorrow and sympathy with the American people over what happened, and it affects all of us too. However, a very worrying aspect is what it now seems to be doing to the USA and to the people there. Suppressive laws and acts seem to be going on that are directly contradictory to the values that your country is built on and stood for. That is very saddening and worrying for the rest of the world. Having been on a conference with American librarians this Summer I know many of you are very worried too.
On another note, this year on September 11th Sweden's foreign minister died from a savage knife attack carried out the day before. She was a good person! And though the crime is not fully solved yet, all the experts agree that the attack was fuelled by hate. So Sol, you are 100% right. It is wonderful to see that the spirit of peace, love and understanding is still thriving, despite what we read in the papers. Keep fighting the good fight!
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:39 AM   #20
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I agree with you cat! Very much! We're still here fighting for our freedoms, don't worry.
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